Common Everyday Cases of Interest - Revision history

YitzchakSultan1: /* Family Members */

2025-06-26T21:35:27Z

Family Members

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	# It is forbidden to trade loans because doing so is taking and paying the value of a loan.<ref>Rama 160:9 quotes the dispute of the rishonim if it is permitted to lend someone on condition that they lend you back afterwards. The Gra holds it is forbidden.</ref>		# It is forbidden to trade loans because doing so is taking and paying the value of a loan.<ref>Rama 160:9 quotes the dispute of the rishonim if it is permitted to lend someone on condition that they lend you back afterwards. The Gra holds it is forbidden.</ref>
	# If after someone lent you money, it is permitted to lend them back.<ref>The Chelkat Binyamin 160:90 cites the Graz who says that for rabbinic ribbit cases we can follow the rishonim who permitted trading one loan for another loan. Therefore, if after the setup of the loan it is permitted to lend them in return since that would only be rabbinic ribbit even if one gave cash in return after the setup of the loan.</ref>		# If after someone lent you money, it is permitted to lend them back.<ref>The Chelkat Binyamin 160:90 cites the Graz who says that for rabbinic ribbit cases we can follow the rishonim who permitted trading one loan for another loan. Therefore, if after the setup of the loan it is permitted to lend them in return since that would only be rabbinic ribbit even if one gave cash in return after the setup of the loan.</ref>
	# It is forbidden for a loan gamach to stipulate that only members who lent money to the gamach may borrow from it because doing so is like lending ~~somemone~~ in order to get back a loan. A rabbi should be consulted how to set up such a gamach.<ref>Mishnat Ribbit 4:12. See Maharsham Shik 157, Maharam Brisk 2:18, Dvar Avraham 3:22, Minchat Shlomo 2:68:14, Brit Yehuda 11 fnt. 13, Netivot Shalom 160:18.</ref>		# It is forbidden for a loan gamach to stipulate that only members who lent money to the gamach may borrow from it because doing so is like lending someone in order to get back a loan. A rabbi should be consulted how to set up such a gamach.<ref>Mishnat Ribbit 4:12. See Maharsham Shik 157, Maharam Brisk 2:18, Dvar Avraham 3:22, Minchat Shlomo 2:68:14, Brit Yehuda 11 fnt. 13, Netivot Shalom 160:18.</ref>

	===Leniencies===		===Leniencies===

YitzchakSultan1: /* Early Bird Specials */

2025-03-30T18:54:05Z

Early Bird Specials

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	# Municipal kindergartens sometimes have a two tiered pricing system. If you pay for each month you pay one price and if you pay in advance of the entire year or several months there is a discount. It is permitted to pay with either arrangement.<Ref>Torat Ribbit 10:74 explains that it is permitted to pay a cheaper price in advance for a rental or salaried worker for a service if it was done in advance (see Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 176:8). The payment is really hiring the city to provide a service. Even though generally one can't hire a worker for cheaper in advance unless the worker starts immediately (Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 176:8) since the arrangement isn't a timed worker (poel) but a serviced worker (kablan) that they can't retract from it is permitted. He quotes that Rav Elyashiv permitted this.</ref> Some apply the same to private school tuition with a two tiered system.<ref>Rav Zeev Cohen in Kuntres Poalim BShabbat by Chicago Kollel p. 10 wrote that the leniency of paying an early discount for wages found in Shulchan Aruch 176:8 can be applied to paying school tuition in advance for a cheaper price since the school is working for the parents and it is like they began the job immediately since they need to prepare the school, the curriculum, and materials far in advance of the actual school year.</ref>		# Municipal kindergartens sometimes have a two tiered pricing system. If you pay for each month you pay one price and if you pay in advance of the entire year or several months there is a discount. It is permitted to pay with either arrangement.<Ref>Torat Ribbit 10:74 explains that it is permitted to pay a cheaper price in advance for a rental or salaried worker for a service if it was done in advance (see Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 176:8). The payment is really hiring the city to provide a service. Even though generally one can't hire a worker for cheaper in advance unless the worker starts immediately (Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 176:8) since the arrangement isn't a timed worker (poel) but a serviced worker (kablan) that they can't retract from it is permitted. He quotes that Rav Elyashiv permitted this.</ref> Some apply the same to private school tuition with a two tiered system.<ref>Rav Zeev Cohen in Kuntres Poalim BShabbat by Chicago Kollel p. 10 wrote that the leniency of paying an early discount for wages found in Shulchan Aruch 176:8 can be applied to paying school tuition in advance for a cheaper price since the school is working for the parents and it is like they began the job immediately since they need to prepare the school, the curriculum, and materials far in advance of the actual school year.</ref>
	# Catering for a wedding, bar mitzvah, or otherwise should not fix a price in advance without a heter iska because doing so can involve there being a discount for this early payment. It is certainly forbidden without a heter iska if there is a discount for advanced payment.<ref>Torat Ribbit 10:76</ref>		# Catering for a wedding, bar mitzvah, or otherwise should not fix a price in advance without a heter iska because doing so can involve there being a discount for this early payment. It is certainly forbidden without a heter iska if there is a discount for advanced payment.<ref>Torat Ribbit 10:76</ref>
			## If a caterer require paying early is an issue of prepaying for a service that is received later. It is only permitted if it is specified that the advanced payment is for things that the caterer already has, such as drinks, or for renting the hall, or for the work of the manager.<ref>Netivot Shalom 175:4:29</ref>
	# In renting a catering hall or wedding hall only it is permitted to pay a discounted price for early payment since it is a rental of real estate.<ref>Torat Ribbit 10:79</ref>		# In renting a catering hall or wedding hall only it is permitted to pay a discounted price for early payment since it is a rental of real estate.<ref>Torat Ribbit 10:79</ref>

Yonirabinovitch: /* Talmidei Chachamim */

2025-01-19T16:46:21Z

Talmidei Chachamim

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	==Borrowing Someone's Credit Card==		==Borrowing Someone's Credit Card==
	[[Image:Borrowing cc.jpg\|250px\|right]]		[[Image:Borrowing cc.jpg\|250px\|right]]
	# It is permitted for someone to borrow another Jew's credit card to pay for a purchase and repay them the amount spent.<ref>Laws of Ribbis p. 311</ref> Even if the purchaser receives points from the credit card company, that isn't considered interest since it doesn't come from the borrower. Additionally, the borrower may not the purchaser for any interest fees that the purchaser may incur if he pays late.<ref>[http://www.torah.org/advanced/weekly-halacha/5762/behar.html Rabbi Doniel Neustadt on torah.org], [https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/4387029/jewish/Can-I-Lend-Out-My-Credit-Card-to-Earn-Points.htm chabad.org], and [http://www.dinonline.org/2014/01/17/receiving-points-from-credit-card-loan/ dinonline.org].</ref> If the loan is done in a way that it is assumed that if the borrower won't pay on time he will have to pay the interest fees, such as is common with large amounts, it would be forbidden to lend your credit card.<ref>Chelkat Binyamin 170:17 describes the issue of borrowing credit cards at length. When someone borrows a credit card and uses it, he is considered as though he borrowed from the credit card company and the credit card holder is a guarantor to pay the debt to the company. Indeed it can be even more serious if it is viewed as though the credit card holder borrowed from the credit card company since he is indebted to them and separately he lent that money to his friend who is using his credit card. Either way if the agreement was that the borrower of the credit card would pay the credit card holder interest if he didn't pay on time that is a forbidden arrangement even if they pay on time and never engage in interest. However, if they arranged that the borrower wouldn't have to pay the interest even in the event that he didn't pay on time then it is permitted. For small purchases it can be assumed that the arrangement was that the borrower would only pay for the capital and not interest if he didn't pay on time.		# It is permitted for someone to borrow another Jew's credit card to pay for a purchase and repay them the amount spent.<ref>Laws of Ribbis p. 311</ref> Even if the purchaser receives points from the credit card company, that isn't considered interest since it doesn't come from the borrower. Additionally, the borrower may not pay the purchaser for any interest fees that the purchaser may incur if he pays late.<ref>[http://www.torah.org/advanced/weekly-halacha/5762/behar.html Rabbi Doniel Neustadt on torah.org], [https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/4387029/jewish/Can-I-Lend-Out-My-Credit-Card-to-Earn-Points.htm chabad.org], and [http://www.dinonline.org/2014/01/17/receiving-points-from-credit-card-loan/ dinonline.org].</ref> If the loan is done in a way that it is assumed that if the borrower won't pay on time he will have to pay the interest fees, such as is common with large amounts, it would be forbidden to lend your credit card.<ref>Chelkat Binyamin 170:17 describes the issue of borrowing credit cards at length. When someone borrows a credit card and uses it, he is considered as though he borrowed from the credit card company and the credit card holder is a guarantor to pay the debt to the company. Indeed it can be even more serious if it is viewed as though the credit card holder borrowed from the credit card company since he is indebted to them and separately he lent that money to his friend who is using his credit card. Either way if the agreement was that the borrower of the credit card would pay the credit card holder interest if he didn't pay on time that is a forbidden arrangement even if they pay on time and never engage in interest. However, if they arranged that the borrower wouldn't have to pay the interest even in the event that he didn't pay on time then it is permitted. For small purchases it can be assumed that the arrangement was that the borrower would only pay for the capital and not interest if he didn't pay on time.
	* The reason that the points are permitted is because they are considered a gift from a third party and not the Jewish lender to the Jewish borrower (see Shulchan Aruch 160:13 and Shach 160:20).</ref>		* The reason that the points are permitted is because they are considered a gift from a third party and not the Jewish lender to the Jewish borrower (see Shulchan Aruch 160:13 and Shach 160:20).</ref>
	# It is problematic to borrow someone else's credit card if there are two prices for a certain product, a cheaper price for cash and more expensive for credit. Since there are two prices we can view the cash price as the real price and the credit card price as the convenience price. Once the borrower of the credit card uses the card to buy a product that is worth less than the credit card price and repays the credit card price he is giving interest to the credit card holder.<ref>Chelkat Binymain Biurim 170:1 s.v. ela p. 392</ref>		# It is problematic to borrow someone else's credit card if there are two prices for a certain product, a cheaper price for cash and more expensive for credit. Since there are two prices we can view the cash price as the real price and the credit card price as the convenience price. Once the borrower of the credit card uses the card to buy a product that is worth less than the credit card price and repays the credit card price he is giving interest to the credit card holder.<ref>Chelkat Binymain Biurim 170:1 s.v. ela p. 392</ref>

Yonirabinovitch: /* Talmidei Chachamim */

2025-01-14T16:49:32Z

Talmidei Chachamim

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	# It is forbidden to gift interest even in small quantities.<ref>Rama 160:17 only permits giving interest in small amounts for Talmidei Chachamim on occasion but not everyone.</ref>		# It is forbidden to gift interest even in small quantities.<ref>Rama 160:17 only permits giving interest in small amounts for Talmidei Chachamim on occasion but not everyone.</ref>
	==Talmidei Chachamim==		==Talmidei Chachamim==
	# A Talmid Chacham who borrowed from another Talmid Chacham ~~food he~~ can return him ~~some~~ more than he got ~~up to a fifth~~ since they are so careful about the halacha it is obvious that they are giving purely as a gift and not because of the loan.<ref>Gemara Bava Metsia 75a, Shulchan Aruch 160:17</ref>		# A Talmid Chacham who borrowed foodstuffs from another Talmid Chacham can return to him up to a fifth more of that food than he got since they are so careful about the halacha it is obvious that they are giving purely as a gift and not because of the loan.<ref>Gemara Bava Metsia 75a, Shulchan Aruch 160:17. See Chelkas Binyamin 186 from Chochmas Adam and Levush that this is specifically by food items, like the Mechaber states in this halacha.</ref>
	#Some say that it is permitted for a Talmid Chacham to stipulate with another Talmid Chacham to pay him ~~a little~~ bit of interest since it is understood to be a pure gift and because of the loan. This leniency should be relied upon sparingly so that people don’t mistakenly extrapolate.<ref>Rama ~~161~~:17</ref>		#Some say that it is permitted for a Talmid Chacham to even stipulate with another Talmid Chacham to pay him the extra bit of foodstuff interest, since it is understood to be a pure gift and because of the loan. This leniency should be relied upon sparingly so that people don’t mistakenly extrapolate.<ref>Rama 160:17</ref>
	#Who is a Talmid Chacham? Some say that he needs to be knowledgeable in most areas of the Talmud and can answer questions properly and extrapolate halachot from one area to another and is very scrupulous of the halacha. Some say that it is referring to a student of Torah who knows the laws.<ref>Biurim of Chelkat Binyamin</ref>		#Who is a Talmid Chacham? Some say that he needs to be knowledgeable in most areas of the Talmud and can answer questions properly and extrapolate halachot from one area to another and is very scrupulous of the halacha. Some say that it is referring to a student of Torah who knows the laws.<ref>Biurim of Chelkat Binyamin</ref>
	# It is unclear if the wife of a talmid chacham is afforded the status of a talmid chacham for this halacha.<ref>Biurim of Chelkat Binyamin</ref>		# It is unclear if the wife of a talmid chacham is afforded the status of a talmid chacham for this halacha.<ref>Biurim of Chelkat Binyamin</ref>

YitzchakSultan1: /* Borrowing Someone's Credit Card */

2025-01-14T03:02:59Z

Borrowing Someone's Credit Card

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:02, 14 January 2025
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	==Borrowing Someone's Credit Card==		==Borrowing Someone's Credit Card==
	[[Image:Borrowing cc.jpg\|250px\|right]]		[[Image:Borrowing cc.jpg\|250px\|right]]
	# It is permitted for someone to borrow another Jew's credit card to pay for a purchase and repay them the amount spent. Even if the purchaser receives points from the credit card company, that isn't considered interest since it doesn't come from the borrower. Additionally, the borrower may not the purchaser for any interest fees that the purchaser may incur if he pays late.<ref>[http://www.torah.org/advanced/weekly-halacha/5762/behar.html Rabbi Doniel Neustadt on torah.org], [https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/4387029/jewish/Can-I-Lend-Out-My-Credit-Card-to-Earn-Points.htm chabad.org], and [http://www.dinonline.org/2014/01/17/receiving-points-from-credit-card-loan/ dinonline.org].</ref> If the ~~borrowing~~ is done in a way that it is assumed that if the borrower won't pay on time he will have to pay the interest fees, such as is common with large amounts, it would be forbidden to lend your credit card.<ref>Chelkat Binyamin 170:17 describes the issue of borrowing credit cards at length. When someone borrows a credit card and uses it, he is considered as though he borrowed from the credit card company and the credit card holder is a guarantor to pay the debt to the company. Indeed it can be even more serious if it is viewed as though the credit card holder borrowed from the credit card company since he is indebted to them and separately he lent that money to his friend who is using his credit card. Either way if the agreement was that the borrower of the credit card would pay the credit card holder interest if he didn't pay on time that is a forbidden arrangement even if they pay on time and never engage in interest. However, if they arranged that the borrower wouldn't have to pay the interest even in the event that he didn't pay on time then it is permitted. For small purchases it can be assumed that the arrangement was that the borrower would only pay for the capital and not interest if he didn't pay on time.		# It is permitted for someone to borrow another Jew's credit card to pay for a purchase and repay them the amount spent.<ref>Laws of Ribbis p. 311</ref> Even if the purchaser receives points from the credit card company, that isn't considered interest since it doesn't come from the borrower. Additionally, the borrower may not the purchaser for any interest fees that the purchaser may incur if he pays late.<ref>[http://www.torah.org/advanced/weekly-halacha/5762/behar.html Rabbi Doniel Neustadt on torah.org], [https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/4387029/jewish/Can-I-Lend-Out-My-Credit-Card-to-Earn-Points.htm chabad.org], and [http://www.dinonline.org/2014/01/17/receiving-points-from-credit-card-loan/ dinonline.org].</ref> If the loan is done in a way that it is assumed that if the borrower won't pay on time he will have to pay the interest fees, such as is common with large amounts, it would be forbidden to lend your credit card.<ref>Chelkat Binyamin 170:17 describes the issue of borrowing credit cards at length. When someone borrows a credit card and uses it, he is considered as though he borrowed from the credit card company and the credit card holder is a guarantor to pay the debt to the company. Indeed it can be even more serious if it is viewed as though the credit card holder borrowed from the credit card company since he is indebted to them and separately he lent that money to his friend who is using his credit card. Either way if the agreement was that the borrower of the credit card would pay the credit card holder interest if he didn't pay on time that is a forbidden arrangement even if they pay on time and never engage in interest. However, if they arranged that the borrower wouldn't have to pay the interest even in the event that he didn't pay on time then it is permitted. For small purchases it can be assumed that the arrangement was that the borrower would only pay for the capital and not interest if he didn't pay on time.
	* The reason that the points are permitted is because they are considered a gift from a third party and not the Jewish lender to the Jewish borrower (see Shulchan Aruch 160:13 and Shach 160:20).</ref>		* The reason that the points are permitted is because they are considered a gift from a third party and not the Jewish lender to the Jewish borrower (see Shulchan Aruch 160:13 and Shach 160:20).</ref>
	# It is problematic to borrow someone else's credit card if there are two prices for a certain product, a cheaper price for cash and more expensive for credit. Since there are two prices we can view the cash price as the real price and the credit card price as the convenience price. Once the borrower of the credit card uses the card to buy a product that is worth less than the credit card price and repays the credit card price he is giving interest to the credit card holder.<ref>Chelkat Binymain Biurim 170:1 s.v. ela p. 392</ref>		# It is problematic to borrow someone else's credit card if there are two prices for a certain product, a cheaper price for cash and more expensive for credit. Since there are two prices we can view the cash price as the real price and the credit card price as the convenience price. Once the borrower of the credit card uses the card to buy a product that is worth less than the credit card price and repays the credit card price he is giving interest to the credit card holder.<ref>Chelkat Binymain Biurim 170:1 s.v. ela p. 392</ref>
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	# It is permitted for a Jew to take out a mortgage from a non-Jewish company even if it is arranged by a Jewish mortgage broker. The reason is that it is known that the broker isn't lending out his own money and it is purely a loan from a non-Jew to a Jew.<ref>Laws of Ribbis p. 245</ref>		# It is permitted for a Jew to take out a mortgage from a non-Jewish company even if it is arranged by a Jewish mortgage broker. The reason is that it is known that the broker isn't lending out his own money and it is purely a loan from a non-Jew to a Jew.<ref>Laws of Ribbis p. 245</ref>
			# If a Jew trying to buy a house cannot get a mortgage because of his credit it is forbidden to ask another Jew, such as a parent or friend, to take out the mortgage in their name and the first Jew will make all of mortgage payments. This is considered a loan between two Jews with interest.<ref>Laws of Ribbis p. 252</ref>
			# It is forbidden for a Jew to be a guarantor on another Jew's mortgage. An exception is if there is a collateral, such as the home for which the mortgage is being taken out, for the debt and it is known that the lender will pursue the collateral rather than the guarantor. In that case, it is permitted for a Jew to be a guarantor for another Jew on a mortgage loan.<ref>Laws of Ribbis p. 254 based on Minchat Yitzchak 4:19:12</ref>

	==Sources==		==Sources==
	<references/>		<references/>
	[[Category:Ribbit]]		[[Category:Ribbit]]

YitzchakSultan1: /* Car Loan */

2025-01-14T02:48:13Z

Car Loan

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:48, 14 January 2025
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	==Car Loan==		==Car Loan==
	# Getting a loan for purchasing a car may not be taken with interest if the loan, provided by the bank or dealership, is done with another Jew. TO avoid any issue, one can either take the auto loan from a non-Jewish bank<ref>[https://dinonline.org/2020/03/08/ribbis-on-auto-loans/ dinonline.org (3/8/2020)]</ref> or with the Jewish lending group, appending to the loan document that it is done in accordance with the [[heter iska]] of a standard Israeli bank.<ref>[https://www.toraland.org.il/%D7%A9%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%95%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%91%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%94-%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98/%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98-%D7%94%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%94/%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%91%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%91%D7%A7%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%91-%D7%91%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%9D/ toraland.org.il]</ref>		# Getting a loan for purchasing a car may not be taken with interest if the loan, provided by the bank or dealership, is done with another Jew. To avoid any issue, one can either take the auto loan from a non-Jewish bank<ref>[https://dinonline.org/2020/03/08/ribbis-on-auto-loans/ dinonline.org (3/8/2020)]</ref> or with the Jewish lending group, appending to the loan document that it is done in accordance with the [[heter iska]] of a standard Israeli bank.<ref>[https://www.toraland.org.il/%D7%A9%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%95%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%91%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%94-%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98/%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98-%D7%94%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%94/%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%91%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%91%D7%A7%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%91-%D7%91%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%9D/ toraland.org.il]</ref>
	# It is permitted to buy a car on discount by paying upfront even though it won't be available or delivered until later as long as the seller owned it at the time of the sale and the seller didn't explicitly state that the reason for the discount is because it is paid in advance.<reF>Milveh Hashem 1:9:23 based on Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 173:7.</reF>		# It is permitted to buy a car on discount by paying upfront even though it won't be available or delivered until later as long as the seller owned it at the time of the sale and the seller didn't explicitly state that the reason for the discount is because it is paid in advance.<reF>Milveh Hashem 1:9:23 based on Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 173:7.</reF>

			== Mortgages ==

			# It is permitted for a Jew to take out a mortgage from a non-Jewish company even if it is arranged by a Jewish mortgage broker. The reason is that it is known that the broker isn't lending out his own money and it is purely a loan from a non-Jew to a Jew.<ref>Laws of Ribbis p. 245</ref>

	==Sources==		==Sources==
	<references/>		<references/>
	[[Category:Ribbit]]		[[Category:Ribbit]]

Unknown user: Text replacement - " Biblical" to " biblical"

2020-12-03T19:40:57Z

Text replacement - " Biblical" to " biblical"

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:40, 3 December 2020
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	==Family Members==		==Family Members==
	# It is forbidden to charge interest even between a parent and child even if they aren’t Bar/Bat mitzvah even though it is understood to be a gift.<ref>The Gemara Bava Metsia 75a concludes that it is forbidden to charge your children interest because it is teaching them a bad lesson. That is also the opinion of Rambam Malveh Vloveh 4:8 and Shulchan Aruch 160:8. Why in fact isn’t it ~~Biblically~~ forbidden to charge your children interest irrelevant of the fact that it is teaching a bad lesson? Chelkat Binyamin cites three approaches as to why it is technically permitted. 1) It is certain that in the end you don’t collect it (Prisha 160:13). 2) We’re only about money that the father gave the child and is now taking it back as interest (Ritva 75a, Knesset Hagedola, Lechem Mishna 4:8). 3) It is understood that the person means to give a gift to his children as a pure gift that he would have done so even if they didn’t lend money (Taz 160:4).</ref> This applies both to a parent borrowing from a child and a child from a parent.<ref>Taz 160:4 based on Rambam</ref>		# It is forbidden to charge interest even between a parent and child even if they aren’t Bar/Bat mitzvah even though it is understood to be a gift.<ref>The Gemara Bava Metsia 75a concludes that it is forbidden to charge your children interest because it is teaching them a bad lesson. That is also the opinion of Rambam Malveh Vloveh 4:8 and Shulchan Aruch 160:8. Why in fact isn’t it biblically forbidden to charge your children interest irrelevant of the fact that it is teaching a bad lesson? Chelkat Binyamin cites three approaches as to why it is technically permitted. 1) It is certain that in the end you don’t collect it (Prisha 160:13). 2) We’re only about money that the father gave the child and is now taking it back as interest (Ritva 75a, Knesset Hagedola, Lechem Mishna 4:8). 3) It is understood that the person means to give a gift to his children as a pure gift that he would have done so even if they didn’t lend money (Taz 160:4).</ref> This applies both to a parent borrowing from a child and a child from a parent.<ref>Taz 160:4 based on Rambam</ref>
	==Buying an Item for Someone Else==		==Buying an Item for Someone Else==
	# If someone asks his friend to go to a place where it is cheaper to buy that item and he gives him the money in advance, it is only permissible if the giver has responsibility for the money until the sale or that the friend has no responsibility for the item on the way back. For example, if an Israeli asks his friend to buy something for him for cheaper in America and pays him in advance they need to arrange that the friend not be responsible for the money until the sale or not be responsible for the item after the purchase.<reF>Torat Ribbit 9:41. He explains that by giving the money in advance and having the buyer return him the item for that price back in the more expensive place is interest. He is giving him money and getting in return an item that is worth more than the money spent in the place where the buyer lives. If the buyer takes responsibility for the money until the sale, it isn't a loan at all but rather an agency of the friend. Alternatively, if the buyer takes responsibility for the item on the way back it is a loan but the friend isn't doing him a favor in returning the item and taking responsibility for it.</ref>		# If someone asks his friend to go to a place where it is cheaper to buy that item and he gives him the money in advance, it is only permissible if the giver has responsibility for the money until the sale or that the friend has no responsibility for the item on the way back. For example, if an Israeli asks his friend to buy something for him for cheaper in America and pays him in advance they need to arrange that the friend not be responsible for the money until the sale or not be responsible for the item after the purchase.<reF>Torat Ribbit 9:41. He explains that by giving the money in advance and having the buyer return him the item for that price back in the more expensive place is interest. He is giving him money and getting in return an item that is worth more than the money spent in the place where the buyer lives. If the buyer takes responsibility for the money until the sale, it isn't a loan at all but rather an agency of the friend. Alternatively, if the buyer takes responsibility for the item on the way back it is a loan but the friend isn't doing him a favor in returning the item and taking responsibility for it.</ref>

Unknown user: /* Car Loan */

2020-08-09T03:58:31Z

Car Loan

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:58, 9 August 2020
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	==Car Loan==		==Car Loan==
	# Getting a loan for purchasing a car may not be taken with interest if the loan, provided by the bank or dealership, is done with another Jew. TO avoid any issue, one can either take the auto loan from a non-Jewish bank<ref>[https://dinonline.org/2020/03/08/ribbis-on-auto-loans/ dinonline.org (3/8/2020)]</ref> or with the Jewish lending group, appending to the loan document that it is done in accordance with the [[heter iska]] of a standard Israeli bank.<ref>[https://www.toraland.org.il/%D7%A9%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%95%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%91%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%94-%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98/%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98-%D7%94%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%94/%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%91%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%91%D7%A7%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%91-%D7%91%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%9D/ toraland.org.il]</ref>		# Getting a loan for purchasing a car may not be taken with interest if the loan, provided by the bank or dealership, is done with another Jew. TO avoid any issue, one can either take the auto loan from a non-Jewish bank<ref>[https://dinonline.org/2020/03/08/ribbis-on-auto-loans/ dinonline.org (3/8/2020)]</ref> or with the Jewish lending group, appending to the loan document that it is done in accordance with the [[heter iska]] of a standard Israeli bank.<ref>[https://www.toraland.org.il/%D7%A9%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%95%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%91%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%94-%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98/%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98-%D7%94%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%94/%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%91%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%91%D7%A7%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%91-%D7%91%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%9D/ toraland.org.il]</ref>
			# It is permitted to buy a car on discount by paying upfront even though it won't be available or delivered until later as long as the seller owned it at the time of the sale and the seller didn't explicitly state that the reason for the discount is because it is paid in advance.<reF>Milveh Hashem 1:9:23 based on Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 173:7.</reF>

	==Sources==		==Sources==
	<references/>		<references/>
	[[Category:Ribbit]]		[[Category:Ribbit]]

Unknown user: /* Taking a Loan from an Israeli Bank */

2020-07-06T20:46:44Z

Taking a Loan from an Israeli Bank

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:46, 6 July 2020
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	# In renting a catering hall or wedding hall only it is permitted to pay a discounted price for early payment since it is a rental of real estate.<ref>Torat Ribbit 10:79</ref>		# In renting a catering hall or wedding hall only it is permitted to pay a discounted price for early payment since it is a rental of real estate.<ref>Torat Ribbit 10:79</ref>

			==Borrowing Someone's Credit Card==
			[[Image:Borrowing cc.jpg\|250px\|right]]
			# It is permitted for someone to borrow another Jew's credit card to pay for a purchase and repay them the amount spent. Even if the purchaser receives points from the credit card company, that isn't considered interest since it doesn't come from the borrower. Additionally, the borrower may not the purchaser for any interest fees that the purchaser may incur if he pays late.<ref>[http://www.torah.org/advanced/weekly-halacha/5762/behar.html Rabbi Doniel Neustadt on torah.org], [https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/4387029/jewish/Can-I-Lend-Out-My-Credit-Card-to-Earn-Points.htm chabad.org], and [http://www.dinonline.org/2014/01/17/receiving-points-from-credit-card-loan/ dinonline.org].</ref> If the borrowing is done in a way that it is assumed that if the borrower won't pay on time he will have to pay the interest fees, such as is common with large amounts, it would be forbidden to lend your credit card.<ref>Chelkat Binyamin 170:17 describes the issue of borrowing credit cards at length. When someone borrows a credit card and uses it, he is considered as though he borrowed from the credit card company and the credit card holder is a guarantor to pay the debt to the company. Indeed it can be even more serious if it is viewed as though the credit card holder borrowed from the credit card company since he is indebted to them and separately he lent that money to his friend who is using his credit card. Either way if the agreement was that the borrower of the credit card would pay the credit card holder interest if he didn't pay on time that is a forbidden arrangement even if they pay on time and never engage in interest. However, if they arranged that the borrower wouldn't have to pay the interest even in the event that he didn't pay on time then it is permitted. For small purchases it can be assumed that the arrangement was that the borrower would only pay for the capital and not interest if he didn't pay on time.
			* The reason that the points are permitted is because they are considered a gift from a third party and not the Jewish lender to the Jewish borrower (see Shulchan Aruch 160:13 and Shach 160:20).</ref>
			# It is problematic to borrow someone else's credit card if there are two prices for a certain product, a cheaper price for cash and more expensive for credit. Since there are two prices we can view the cash price as the real price and the credit card price as the convenience price. Once the borrower of the credit card uses the card to buy a product that is worth less than the credit card price and repays the credit card price he is giving interest to the credit card holder.<ref>Chelkat Binymain Biurim 170:1 s.v. ela p. 392</ref>
	==Taking a Loan from an Israeli Bank==		==Taking a Loan from an Israeli Bank==
	# It is permitted to take a loan from an Israeli bank account since there is a heter iska klali. It is preferable to write on the contract that it works with a heter iska.<ref>Yalkut Yosef Sova Semachot v. 1 p. 517 writes that it is permitted to take an interest loan from the Israeli banks. Here are his reasons:		# It is permitted to take a loan from an Israeli bank account since there is a heter iska klali. It is preferable to write on the contract that it works with a heter iska.<ref>Yalkut Yosef Sova Semachot v. 1 p. 517 writes that it is permitted to take an interest loan from the Israeli banks. Here are his reasons:
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	* the corporation of the bank has a limited liability for individual owners and as such there's no loan between two people but between a corporation and an individual. Rashba responsa 1:669 entertained the idea that there's no ribbit with money designated for charity that doesn't belong to any individual. Maharit 45, Har Tzvi YD 126, Tzafnat Pane'ach 184, Bet Avi 3:129:6, Maharia Halevi 2:54, and Cheshev Haefod 53 are lenient. are also lenient. See Minchat Shlomo 1:28, Minchat Yitzchak 3:1:2-3, Chelkat Yakov 3:160, and Chayei Halevi 2:54. Igrot Moshe 2:62 writes that there's no ribbit for a corporation to pay interest like in a savings bank but there is when discussing an individual paying a corporation.		* the corporation of the bank has a limited liability for individual owners and as such there's no loan between two people but between a corporation and an individual. Rashba responsa 1:669 entertained the idea that there's no ribbit with money designated for charity that doesn't belong to any individual. Maharit 45, Har Tzvi YD 126, Tzafnat Pane'ach 184, Bet Avi 3:129:6, Maharia Halevi 2:54, and Cheshev Haefod 53 are lenient. are also lenient. See Minchat Shlomo 1:28, Minchat Yitzchak 3:1:2-3, Chelkat Yakov 3:160, and Chayei Halevi 2:54. Igrot Moshe 2:62 writes that there's no ribbit for a corporation to pay interest like in a savings bank but there is when discussing an individual paying a corporation.
	* According to Rashi (cited by Rama 160:16) that there’s no prohibition of ribbit when done through a shaliach perhaps that can permit using a bank loan since the teller is merely an agent of the bank.</ref>		* According to Rashi (cited by Rama 160:16) that there’s no prohibition of ribbit when done through a shaliach perhaps that can permit using a bank loan since the teller is merely an agent of the bank.</ref>

	==Car Loan==		==Car Loan==
	# Getting a loan for purchasing a car may not be taken with interest if the loan, provided by the bank or dealership, is done with another Jew. TO avoid any issue, one can either take the auto loan from a non-Jewish bank<ref>[https://dinonline.org/2020/03/08/ribbis-on-auto-loans/ dinonline.org (3/8/2020)]</ref> or with the Jewish lending group, appending to the loan document that it is done in accordance with the [[heter iska]] of a standard Israeli bank.<ref>[https://www.toraland.org.il/%D7%A9%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%95%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%91%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%94-%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98/%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98-%D7%94%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%94/%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%91%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%91%D7%A7%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%91-%D7%91%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%9D/ toraland.org.il]</ref>		# Getting a loan for purchasing a car may not be taken with interest if the loan, provided by the bank or dealership, is done with another Jew. TO avoid any issue, one can either take the auto loan from a non-Jewish bank<ref>[https://dinonline.org/2020/03/08/ribbis-on-auto-loans/ dinonline.org (3/8/2020)]</ref> or with the Jewish lending group, appending to the loan document that it is done in accordance with the [[heter iska]] of a standard Israeli bank.<ref>[https://www.toraland.org.il/%D7%A9%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%95%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%91%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%94-%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98/%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98-%D7%94%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%94/%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%91%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%91%D7%A7%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%91-%D7%91%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%9D/ toraland.org.il]</ref>

Unknown user: /* Car Loan */

2020-07-05T18:56:49Z

Car Loan

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:56, 5 July 2020
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	* According to Rashi (cited by Rama 160:16) that there’s no prohibition of ribbit when done through a shaliach perhaps that can permit using a bank loan since the teller is merely an agent of the bank.</ref>		* According to Rashi (cited by Rama 160:16) that there’s no prohibition of ribbit when done through a shaliach perhaps that can permit using a bank loan since the teller is merely an agent of the bank.</ref>
	==Car Loan==		==Car Loan==
	# Getting a loan for purchasing a car may not be taken with interest if the loan, provided by the bank or dealership, is done with another Jew. It can ~~be stipulated that it is done by writing~~ on the loan document that it is done in accordance with the [[heter iska]] of a standard Israeli bank.<ref>[https://www.toraland.org.il/%D7%A9%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%95%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%91%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%94-%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98/%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98-%D7%94%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%94/%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%91%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%91%D7%A7%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%91-%D7%91%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%9D/ toraland.org.il]</ref>		# Getting a loan for purchasing a car may not be taken with interest if the loan, provided by the bank or dealership, is done with another Jew. TO avoid any issue, one can either take the auto loan from a non-Jewish bank<ref>[https://dinonline.org/2020/03/08/ribbis-on-auto-loans/ dinonline.org (3/8/2020)]</ref> or with the Jewish lending group, appending to the loan document that it is done in accordance with the [[heter iska]] of a standard Israeli bank.<ref>[https://www.toraland.org.il/%D7%A9%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%95%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%91%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%94-%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98/%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98-%D7%94%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%94/%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%91%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%91%D7%A7%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%91-%D7%91%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%9D/ toraland.org.il]</ref>

	==Sources==		==Sources==
	<references/>		<references/>
	[[Category:Ribbit]]		[[Category:Ribbit]]