Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem - Revision history

YitzchakSultan1: /* When to Stop Morid Hageshem and Start Tal */

2024-04-21T15:26:21Z

When to Stop Morid Hageshem and Start Tal

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:26, 21 April 2024
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	# One may not begin reciting “Mashiv Haruach” in the Amida prayer until the Hazan announces before Musaf on Shemini Aseret that it should be recited. <ref> Shulchan Aruch 114:2 </ref>		# One may not begin reciting “Mashiv Haruach” in the Amida prayer until the Hazan announces before Musaf on Shemini Aseret that it should be recited. <ref> Shulchan Aruch 114:2 </ref>
	==When to Stop Morid Hageshem and Start Tal==		==When to Stop Morid Hageshem and Start Tal==
	# From Mussaf of the first day of Pesach, we ~~begin to recite~~ Morid Hatal. Sephardim ~~start~~ reciting Mashiv Haruach Umorid Hageshem ~~with~~ Mussaf<ref>Yalkut Yosef (Pesach n. 16), Chazon Ovadia Pesach 5763 p. 246</ref> ~~and~~ Ashkenazim ~~have~~ only the Shaliach Tzibur in the Chazarat Hashatz of Mussaf ~~to stop saying~~ Mashiv Haruach and ~~say~~ the Tikkun Hatal ~~and then beginning~~ with Mincha everyone ~~should stop~~ saying Mashiv Haruach Umorid Hageshem.<ref>Rama O.C. 114:3, Levush 114:2</ref>		# From Mussaf of the first day of Pesach, we stop saying Mashiv Haruach. Those who say Morid Hatal start it then.<ref>Shulchan Aruch O.C. 114:1</ref>
			## Sephardim stop reciting Mashiv Haruach Umorid Hageshem and start saying Mashiv Haruach at Mussaf.<ref>Yalkut Yosef (Pesach n. 16), Chazon Ovadia Pesach 5763 p. 246</ref> Meaning, the first time they say Mashiv Haruach is at Mussaf of the first day of Pesach.<ref>Shulchan Aruch O.C. 114:1, Mishna Brurah 114:3</ref>
			## Ashkenazim only stop saying Mashiv Haruach Umorid Hageshem at Mincha. During Mussaf, in the private Shemona Esrei everyone including the Shaliach Tzibur says Mashiv Haruach Umorid Hageshem. In the Chazarat Hashatz of Mussaf, the Shliach Tzibur omits Mashiv Haruach and says the Tikkun Hatal. Beginning with Mincha everyone stops saying Mashiv Haruach Umorid Hageshem and those who insert Morid Hatal do so.<ref>Rama O.C. 114:3, Levush 114:2</ref>

	==If one made a mistake in the winter==		==If one made a mistake in the winter==

Unknown user: /* Sources */

2020-07-12T12:32:01Z

Sources

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:32, 12 July 2020
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	==Sources==		==Sources==
	<references/>		<references/>

			{{Prayers}}
	[[Category:Prayer]]		[[Category:Prayer]]

YitzchakSultan: /* When we say it */

2020-04-07T15:05:04Z

When we say it

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:05, 7 April 2020
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	==When we say it==		==When we say it==
	# From the [[Mussaf]] of the last day of [[Sukkot]] until the [[Mussaf]] of the first day of [[Pesach]] (the winter months) we add in the phrase Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem. <Ref>Shulchan Aruch 114:1, Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 19:1 </ref>		# From the [[Mussaf]] of the last day of [[Sukkot]] until the [[Mussaf]] of the first day of [[Pesach]] (the winter months) we add in the phrase Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem. <Ref>Shulchan Aruch 114:1, Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 19:1 </ref>
	# ~~one~~ may not begin reciting “Mashiv Haruach” in the Amida prayer until the Hazan announces before Musaf on Shemini Aseret that it should be recited. <ref> Shulchan Aruch 114:2 </ref>		# One may not begin reciting “Mashiv Haruach” in the Amida prayer until the Hazan announces before Musaf on Shemini Aseret that it should be recited. <ref> Shulchan Aruch 114:2 </ref>
			==When to Stop Morid Hageshem and Start Tal==
			# From Mussaf of the first day of Pesach, we begin to recite Morid Hatal. Sephardim start reciting Mashiv Haruach Umorid Hageshem with Mussaf<ref>Yalkut Yosef (Pesach n. 16), Chazon Ovadia Pesach 5763 p. 246</ref> and Ashkenazim have only the Shaliach Tzibur in the Chazarat Hashatz of Mussaf to stop saying Mashiv Haruach and say the Tikkun Hatal and then beginning with Mincha everyone should stop saying Mashiv Haruach Umorid Hageshem.<ref>Rama O.C. 114:3, Levush 114:2</ref>

	==If one made a mistake in the winter==		==If one made a mistake in the winter==
	# In the winter, if one said Morid HaTal instead of Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem if one remembered before the end of the Bracha one should say Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem before VeNeeman Atta LeHaChayot Meytim. <Ref>Kaf HaChaim 114:38 and Halacha Brurah 114:11 </ref> However, if one finished the Bracha one doesn’t go back to correct it<Ref>Shulchan Aruch OC 114:5.		# In the winter, if one said Morid HaTal instead of Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem if one remembered before the end of the Bracha one should say Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem before VeNeeman Atta LeHaChayot Meytim. <Ref>Kaf HaChaim 114:38 and Halacha Brurah 114:11 </ref> However, if one finished the Bracha one doesn’t go back to correct it<Ref>Shulchan Aruch OC 114:5.

YitzchakSultan: /* If one made a mistake in the winter */

2016-10-26T15:47:50Z

If one made a mistake in the winter

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:47, 26 October 2016
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	* However, the Taz 117:3 says that only a mentioning of dew satisfies the obligation because it too is a praise about how Hashem gives life through water (in rain and dew) to the world. The Pri Megadim (M”Z 114:11) says that according to the Taz if one only say Mashiv HaRuach and not Morid HaGeshem one would not have fulfilled one’s obligation, however, according to the Bet Yosef, one may have fulfilled one’s obligation. This is also quoted in the Kaf HaChaim 114:37. Mishna Brurah 114:26 holds in this case that should repeat Shemona Esrei.		* However, the Taz 117:3 says that only a mentioning of dew satisfies the obligation because it too is a praise about how Hashem gives life through water (in rain and dew) to the world. The Pri Megadim (M”Z 114:11) says that according to the Taz if one only say Mashiv HaRuach and not Morid HaGeshem one would not have fulfilled one’s obligation, however, according to the Bet Yosef, one may have fulfilled one’s obligation. This is also quoted in the Kaf HaChaim 114:37. Mishna Brurah 114:26 holds in this case that should repeat Shemona Esrei.
	* The Tur 114:5, and Shulchan Aruch 114:5 codify the halacha like the Rif. </ref> even if one didn't yet start the next bracha.<ref>Ben Ish Chai (Beshalach no. 16) says one should insert Mashiv Haruach UMorid Hageshem before Atta Kadosh if one said Morid Hatal and remembered before starting the next bracha. Rav Ovadia Yosef in Yabia Omer 1:22:13 argues because the Bet Yosef 114:6 concludes that we would only use the idea of the Ravyah to insert a missed insertion immediately after the bracha before the next bracha for necessary insertions. However, in this situation once a person said Morid Hatal it is sufficient and so one shouldn't insert it before the next bracha. Halacha Brurah 114:11 agrees.</ref>		* The Tur 114:5, and Shulchan Aruch 114:5 codify the halacha like the Rif. </ref> even if one didn't yet start the next bracha.<ref>Ben Ish Chai (Beshalach no. 16) says one should insert Mashiv Haruach UMorid Hageshem before Atta Kadosh if one said Morid Hatal and remembered before starting the next bracha. Rav Ovadia Yosef in Yabia Omer 1:22:13 argues because the Bet Yosef 114:6 concludes that we would only use the idea of the Ravyah to insert a missed insertion immediately after the bracha before the next bracha for necessary insertions. However, in this situation once a person said Morid Hatal it is sufficient and so one shouldn't insert it before the next bracha. Halacha Brurah 114:11 agrees.</ref>
	~~# Similarly, during the winter if one said both Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem and Morid HaTal one doesn’t go back to correct it. <ref>Shulchan Aruch 114:5 </ref>~~
	# In the winter, if one forgot to say Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem and		# In the winter, if one forgot to say Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem and
	## remembered before the end of the Bracha, one should say it where one remembered and continue from there <ref>		## remembered before the end of the Bracha, one should say it where one remembered and continue from there <ref>
	* The Ravyah (quoted in the Mordechai (Tanit Siman 612, the first piece of Tanit) explains that if one forgot Mashiv HaRuach in the winter and remembered before the end of the bracha it’s sufficient to say Mashiv HaRuach and not return to the beginning of the Bracha because it’s recognizable that one is saying the correct insertion (see Ravyah above). However, the Rosh (Tanit 1:1) writes that if one remembers one should say it wherever one remembers.		* The Ravyah (quoted in the Mordechai (Tanit Siman 612, the first piece of Tanit) explains that if one forgot Mashiv HaRuach in the winter and remembered before the end of the bracha it’s sufficient to say Mashiv HaRuach and not return to the beginning of the Bracha because it’s recognizable that one is saying the correct insertion (see Ravyah above). However, the Rosh (Tanit 1:1) writes that if one remembers one should say it wherever one remembers.
	* [This is according to the Bet Yosef 114:6 who says that there’s a dispute between the Rosh and Ravyah of how to understand the Gemara which says if one forgets to say Morid HaGeshem one has to repeat. The Ravyah understands the gemara to mean if one remembers before the end of the Bracha one should return to Mashiv HaRuach and continue with Mechalkel Chaim. However, the Rosh understands the Gemara to mean that if one finished the Bracha one must repeat [[Shmoneh Esrei]], however, if one didn’t finish the Bracha then the Rosh says based on logic that one may say it at any point. On the other hand, the Bach 114:7 says that both the Ravyah and Rosh agree that one may say it at any point in the Bracha. ]		* [This is according to the Bet Yosef 114:6 who says that there’s a dispute between the Rosh and Ravyah of how to understand the Gemara which says if one forgets to say Morid HaGeshem one has to repeat. The Ravyah understands the gemara to mean if one remembers before the end of the Bracha one should return to Mashiv HaRuach and continue with Mechalkel Chaim. However, the Rosh understands the Gemara to mean that if one finished the Bracha one must repeat [[Shmoneh Esrei]], however, if one didn’t finish the Bracha then the Rosh says based on logic that one may say it at any point. On the other hand, the Bach 114:7 says that both the Ravyah and Rosh agree that one may say it at any point in the Bracha. ]
	* The S”A 114:6 rules like the Rosh that one should continue from the point one remembered. Halacha Brurah 114:12 rules like S”A. </ref> unless one already said VeNeeman Atta LeHachayot Meytim in which case one should return to that point say Mashiv HaRuach and continue. <Ref>Mishna Brurah 114:29 rules this way so that one is able to conclude the Bracha with the mean idea of the Bracha. This is also brought by the Kaf HaChaim 114:42 and Halacha Brurah 114:12. </ref>		* The S”A 114:6 rules like the Rosh that one should continue from the point one remembered. Halacha Brurah 114:12 rules like S”A.</ref> unless one already said VeNeeman Atta LeHachayot Meytim in which case one should return to that point say Mashiv HaRuach and continue. <Ref>Mishna Brurah 114:29 rules this way so that one is able to conclude the Bracha with the mean idea of the Bracha. This is also brought by the Kaf HaChaim 114:42 and Halacha Brurah 114:12. </ref>
	## remembered after having said Baruch Atta Hashem before saying Mechaye Maytim, one should say Lamdeni Chukecha (למדני חוקיך) and then go back to Mashiv HaRuach and continue from there. <ref>		## remembered after having said Baruch Atta Hashem before saying Mechaye Maytim, one should say Lamdeni Chukecha (למדני חוקיך) and then go back to Mashiv HaRuach and continue from there. <ref>
	* Beiur Halacha 114:6 s.v. BeLo Chatima quotes several reasons not to hold like the Ravyah (who says that one may insert Mashiv HaRuach after Mechaye Maytim before Atta Kadosh), however, he concludes that it’s difficult to rule against the Shulchan Aruch (who rules like the Ravyah) and many achronim who agree with S”A. The Beiur Halacha adds that if one remembers before finishing the Bracha one should conclude with the words Lamdeni Chukecha which is the conclusion of a פסוק and then one will be able to go back to Mashiv HaRuach and continue from there avoiding the situation of the Ravyah. Additionally, if one forgot VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha one should say it in Shomeh [[Tefillah]] rather than say it before the next Bracha. The Mishna Brurah 114:32 seems to hold like Shulchan Aruch unless it’s possible to avoid this situation.		* Beiur Halacha 114:6 s.v. BeLo Chatima quotes several reasons not to hold like the Ravyah (who says that one may insert Mashiv HaRuach after Mechaye Maytim before Atta Kadosh), however, he concludes that it’s difficult to rule against the Shulchan Aruch (who rules like the Ravyah) and many achronim who agree with S”A. The Beiur Halacha adds that if one remembers before finishing the Bracha one should conclude with the words Lamdeni Chukecha which is the conclusion of a פסוק and then one will be able to go back to Mashiv HaRuach and continue from there avoiding the situation of the Ravyah. Additionally, if one forgot VeTen Tal UMatar Lebracha one should say it in Shomeh [[Tefillah]] rather than say it before the next Bracha. The Mishna Brurah 114:32 seems to hold like Shulchan Aruch unless it’s possible to avoid this situation.

YitzchakSultan: /* If one made a mistake in the winter */

2016-10-26T15:30:44Z

If one made a mistake in the winter

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 # one may not begin reciting “Mashiv Haruach” in the Amida prayer until the Hazan announces before Musaf on Shemini Aseret that it should be recited. <ref> Shulchan Aruch 114:2 </ref>
 ==If one made a mistake in the winter==
 # In the winter, if one forgot to say Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem and
 ## remembered before the end of the Bracha, one should say it where one remembered and continue from there <ref>
@@ Line 20: / Line 27: @@
 * The S”A 114:6 rules like the Mordechai that one shouldn’t say any conclusion when adding an insertion between the [[Brachot]] of [[Shmoneh Esrei]].] </ref>
 ## remembered after having completed the Bracha and started the next Bracha, one has to repeat [[Shmoneh Esrei]]. <ref> Rabbi Chanina in Gemara Tanit (3b) says that if one forgot to say Morid HaGeshem in the winter months one must repeat [[Shmoneh Esrei]]. This is the ruling of the Rif (Tanit 1a), Rosh (Tanit 1:1), Rambam ([[Tefillah]] 10:8), Tur 114:5, and S”A 114:5. </ref>
 ==If one made a mistake in the summer==

YitzchakSultan: Text replacement - "Shemoneh Esrei" to "Shmoneh Esrei"

2015-06-14T15:50:03Z

Text replacement - "Shemoneh Esrei" to "Shmoneh Esrei"

Show changes

Dlhanon: Text replacement - "Magan" to "Magen"

2015-03-30T20:15:23Z

Text replacement - "Magan" to "Magen"

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:15, 30 March 2015
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	==If one made a mistake in the summer==		==If one made a mistake in the summer==
	===Omitting Morid HaTal===		===Omitting Morid HaTal===
	# The Sephardic minhag is to add Morid HaTal during the summer months. If one forgot to say Morid HaTal one doesn’t have to return to correct it even if one remembered before finishing the Bracha. <Ref>S”A 114:3 implies that the Sephardic minhag is to say Morid HaTal during the summer. This implication is made by the Mishna Brurah 114:13. The S”A 114:3 rules that if one forgot to say Morid HaTal one doesn’t have to return to correct it. ~~Magan~~ Avraham 114:4 adds that even if one didn’t finish the Bracha one doesn’t have to go back to correct it. Mishna Brurah 114:12, Kaf HaChaim 114:18, and Halacha Brurah 114:5 agree. </ref>		# The Sephardic minhag is to add Morid HaTal during the summer months. If one forgot to say Morid HaTal one doesn’t have to return to correct it even if one remembered before finishing the Bracha. <Ref>S”A 114:3 implies that the Sephardic minhag is to say Morid HaTal during the summer. This implication is made by the Mishna Brurah 114:13. The S”A 114:3 rules that if one forgot to say Morid HaTal one doesn’t have to return to correct it. Magen Avraham 114:4 adds that even if one didn’t finish the Bracha one doesn’t have to go back to correct it. Mishna Brurah 114:12, Kaf HaChaim 114:18, and Halacha Brurah 114:5 agree. </ref>
	# However, many Ashkenazim have the custom not to say it at all during the summer. <Ref> The Rama 114:3 writes that the Ashkenazic minhag is not to say Morid HaTal during the winter or summer. Halacha Brurah 114:5 writes that the minhag of Ashkenazim in [[Israel]] is to say Morid HaTal during the summer like Sephardim. </ref>		# However, many Ashkenazim have the custom not to say it at all during the summer. <Ref> The Rama 114:3 writes that the Ashkenazic minhag is not to say Morid HaTal during the winter or summer. Halacha Brurah 114:5 writes that the minhag of Ashkenazim in [[Israel]] is to say Morid HaTal during the summer like Sephardim. </ref>
	===Inserting Mashiv HaRuach===		===Inserting Mashiv HaRuach===

YitzchakSultan: Text replacement - "S"A" to "Shulchan Aruch"

2015-01-07T03:23:57Z

Text replacement - "S"A" to "Shulchan Aruch"

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:23, 7 January 2015
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	==When we say it==		==When we say it==
	# From the [[Mussaf]] of the last day of [[Sukkot]] until the [[Mussaf]] of the first day of [[Pesach]] (the winter months) we add in the phrase Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem. <Ref>~~S"A~~ 114:1, Kitzur ~~S"A~~ 19:1 </ref>		# From the [[Mussaf]] of the last day of [[Sukkot]] until the [[Mussaf]] of the first day of [[Pesach]] (the winter months) we add in the phrase Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem. <Ref>Shulchan Aruch 114:1, Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 19:1 </ref>
	# one may not begin reciting “Mashiv Haruach” in the Amida prayer until the Hazan announces before Musaf on Shemini Aseret that it should be recited. <ref> ~~S"A~~ 114:2 </ref>		# one may not begin reciting “Mashiv Haruach” in the Amida prayer until the Hazan announces before Musaf on Shemini Aseret that it should be recited. <ref> Shulchan Aruch 114:2 </ref>
	==If one made a mistake in the winter==		==If one made a mistake in the winter==
	# In the winter, if one forgot to say Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem and		# In the winter, if one forgot to say Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem and
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	* The Ravyah (quoted in the Mordechai (Tanit Siman 612, the first piece of Tanit) explains that if one said Mashiv HaRuach in the summer returning to Mechalkel Chaim isn’t sufficient because it’s not recognizable that one is making an omission (as one says that everyday) rather one should start from the beginning of the Bracha and then the omission of Mashiv HaRuach is evident.		* The Ravyah (quoted in the Mordechai (Tanit Siman 612, the first piece of Tanit) explains that if one said Mashiv HaRuach in the summer returning to Mechalkel Chaim isn’t sufficient because it’s not recognizable that one is making an omission (as one says that everyday) rather one should start from the beginning of the Bracha and then the omission of Mashiv HaRuach is evident.
	* However, the Bet Yosef 114:4 understands the Rambam ([[Tefillah]] 10:8) as saying that if one said Morid HaGeshem even if one didn’t finish the Bracha one must return to the beginning of [[Shemoneh Esrei]]. Some poskim rule like the Rambam (see next footnote).		* However, the Bet Yosef 114:4 understands the Rambam ([[Tefillah]] 10:8) as saying that if one said Morid HaGeshem even if one didn’t finish the Bracha one must return to the beginning of [[Shemoneh Esrei]]. Some poskim rule like the Rambam (see next footnote).
	* The Tur and S”A 114:4 rule like the Rosh and Ravyah. Kitzur ~~S"A~~ 19:4 concurs.</ref> Some say that even if one didn't finish the bracha yet one should return to the beginning of Shemona Esrei. <ref>Biur HaGra 114:4 based on Rambam, Beiur Halacha s.v. VeChozer</ref>		* The Tur and S”A 114:4 rule like the Rosh and Ravyah. Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 19:4 concurs.</ref> Some say that even if one didn't finish the bracha yet one should return to the beginning of Shemona Esrei. <ref>Biur HaGra 114:4 based on Rambam, Beiur Halacha s.v. VeChozer</ref>
	# If one mistakenly said Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem and remembers before the end of the end Bracha one should return to the beginning of the Bracha (Atta Gibor), however, if one didn’t and only said Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem and continued with Mechalkel Chaim and then completed the Bracha one fulfilled one’s obligation. <ref>Mishna Brurah 114:19 (see also previous footnote)</ref>		# If one mistakenly said Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem and remembers before the end of the end Bracha one should return to the beginning of the Bracha (Atta Gibor), however, if one didn’t and only said Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem and continued with Mechalkel Chaim and then completed the Bracha one fulfilled one’s obligation. <ref>Mishna Brurah 114:19 (see also previous footnote)</ref>
	# Similarly, if one mistakenly said both Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem and also Morid HaTal and finished the Bracha one must start [[Shemoneh Esrei]] again. <Ref>Rama 114:4 (see earlier footnote) </ref>		# Similarly, if one mistakenly said both Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem and also Morid HaTal and finished the Bracha one must start [[Shemoneh Esrei]] again. <Ref>Rama 114:4 (see earlier footnote) </ref>

Ezralevy at 21:04, 16 October 2014

2014-10-16T21:04:02Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:04, 16 October 2014
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	==When we say it==		==When we say it==
	# From the [[Mussaf]] of the last day of [[Sukkot]] until the [[Mussaf]] of the first day of [[Pesach]] (the winter months) we add in the phrase Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem. <Ref>S"A 114:1, Kitzur S"A 19:1 </ref>		# From the [[Mussaf]] of the last day of [[Sukkot]] until the [[Mussaf]] of the first day of [[Pesach]] (the winter months) we add in the phrase Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem. <Ref>S"A 114:1, Kitzur S"A 19:1 </ref>
			# one may not begin reciting “Mashiv Haruach” in the Amida prayer until the Hazan announces before Musaf on Shemini Aseret that it should be recited. <ref> S"A 114:2 </ref>
	==If one made a mistake in the winter==		==If one made a mistake in the winter==
	# In the winter, if one forgot to say Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem and		# In the winter, if one forgot to say Mashiv HaRuach UMorid HaGeshem and

Dlhanon at 16:00, 16 March 2014

2014-03-16T16:00:21Z