Difference between revisions of "Counting Jewish People"

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# It's permissible to count in one's mind without speaking or pointing as long as there's some purpose of the count. <ref> Sh"t Tzitz Eliezer 7:3:8, Minchat Asher (Bamidbar 1) in name of the Kaf HaChaim Sofer and Kaf HaChaim Palagi. Piskei Teshuvot (end of 156) quotes someone who is strict unless it's for a mitzvah. </ref>
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==General==
# It's permitted to count through another item than the person himself such as a coin or a finger. <ref> Sh"t Tzitz Eliezer 7:3:8 </ref>
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# There’s a prohibition to count Jewish people. <Ref> The Aynayim LeMishpat (Brachot 62b) who says that there’s no prohibition nowadays based on Rabbenu Chananel in Brachot, however, the Sh”t Tzitz Eliezer 7:3 (Chapter 1 section 2) strongly disagrees in explanation of the Gemara. All achronim agree that there’s still a prohibition in effect nowadays including the Magan Avraham 156:2, Gra (Aderet Eliyahu Parshat Ki Tisa). </ref> According to most authorities this prohibition is a biblical command. <Ref>Sh”t Tzitz Eliezer 7:3 (Chapter 1 section 1) </ref>
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==Permissible ways==
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===By means of something else===
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# Counting through something else like counting the fingers of people is only permitted for a serious need or need of a mitzvah. <ref>S”t Tzitz Eliezer 7:3:8, Seridei Esh 1:140, Sh”t Shevet HaLevi 1:34 </ref>
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===For a mitzvah===
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# The prohibition applies even counting for a mitzvah. <ref>Magan Avraham 156:2 </ref>
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# The minhag is to allow counting for a mitzvah using the פסוק of Hoshiyah Et Amecha…הושיעה את עמך וברך את נחלתך ורעם ונשאם עד העולם in order to count for a minyan. <Ref>Kitzur S”A 15:3, Piskei Teshuvot 156:24, and Minchat Asher Parshat Bamidbar (Siman 1) </ref>
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===In thought===
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# Many poskim permit counting in one’s thought (by looking and counting in one’s head without making any motions) for a mitzvah or any need. <Ref>Yalkut Yosef (Piskei DeZimrah 55 note 2, Sherit Yosef vol 2 pg 93) permits counting for a minyan in one’s mind. Sh"t Tzitz Eliezer 7:3:8, Minchat Asher (Bamidbar 1) in name of the Kaf HaChaim Sofer and Kaf HaChaim Palagi permit. However, Etz Yosef (Yoma 22b; quoted by Piskei Teshuvot 156:24) is strict. </ref>
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==Other examples==
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# Numbering Jewish graves is prohibited, however it’s permissible to number each section assuming that there’s different number of graves in each section. <Ref>Sh”t Igrot Moshe Y”D 2:117(2) </ref>
 
# It’s a problem of counting Jewish people for people or children standing in a line for each one to say his number. <Ref> Shevet HaLevi 1:34 </ref>
 
# It’s a problem of counting Jewish people for people or children standing in a line for each one to say his number. <Ref> Shevet HaLevi 1:34 </ref>
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# Counting Jewish names on a list is a dispute. <Ref>Chatan Sofer (Y”D 106) in name of his father the חתם סופר who says that it’s forbidden Deoritta. </ref>
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==The census==
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# Participating in the Israeli consenus is permissible. <Ref>Sh”t Shevet HaLevi O”C 9:35, Sh”t Mishpatei Uziel 4:2 </ref>
  
 
==References==
 
==References==
 
<references/>
 
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Revision as of 12:29, 31 March 2011

General

  1. There’s a prohibition to count Jewish people. [1] According to most authorities this prohibition is a biblical command. [2]

Permissible ways

By means of something else

  1. Counting through something else like counting the fingers of people is only permitted for a serious need or need of a mitzvah. [3]

For a mitzvah

  1. The prohibition applies even counting for a mitzvah. [4]
  2. The minhag is to allow counting for a mitzvah using the פסוק of Hoshiyah Et Amecha…הושיעה את עמך וברך את נחלתך ורעם ונשאם עד העולם in order to count for a minyan. [5]

In thought

  1. Many poskim permit counting in one’s thought (by looking and counting in one’s head without making any motions) for a mitzvah or any need. [6]

Other examples

  1. Numbering Jewish graves is prohibited, however it’s permissible to number each section assuming that there’s different number of graves in each section. [7]
  2. It’s a problem of counting Jewish people for people or children standing in a line for each one to say his number. [8]
  3. Counting Jewish names on a list is a dispute. [9]

The census

  1. Participating in the Israeli consenus is permissible. [10]

References

  1. The Aynayim LeMishpat (Brachot 62b) who says that there’s no prohibition nowadays based on Rabbenu Chananel in Brachot, however, the Sh”t Tzitz Eliezer 7:3 (Chapter 1 section 2) strongly disagrees in explanation of the Gemara. All achronim agree that there’s still a prohibition in effect nowadays including the Magan Avraham 156:2, Gra (Aderet Eliyahu Parshat Ki Tisa).
  2. Sh”t Tzitz Eliezer 7:3 (Chapter 1 section 1)
  3. S”t Tzitz Eliezer 7:3:8, Seridei Esh 1:140, Sh”t Shevet HaLevi 1:34
  4. Magan Avraham 156:2
  5. Kitzur S”A 15:3, Piskei Teshuvot 156:24, and Minchat Asher Parshat Bamidbar (Siman 1)
  6. Yalkut Yosef (Piskei DeZimrah 55 note 2, Sherit Yosef vol 2 pg 93) permits counting for a minyan in one’s mind. Sh"t Tzitz Eliezer 7:3:8, Minchat Asher (Bamidbar 1) in name of the Kaf HaChaim Sofer and Kaf HaChaim Palagi permit. However, Etz Yosef (Yoma 22b; quoted by Piskei Teshuvot 156:24) is strict.
  7. Sh”t Igrot Moshe Y”D 2:117(2)
  8. Shevet HaLevi 1:34
  9. Chatan Sofer (Y”D 106) in name of his father the חתם סופר who says that it’s forbidden Deoritta.
  10. Sh”t Shevet HaLevi O”C 9:35, Sh”t Mishpatei Uziel 4:2