Kli SheMelachto LeIsser: Difference between revisions
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# It’s permitted to move a [[Kli Sh’Melachto LeIssur]] if the object is in the way of getting something for a permitted purpose i.e. clearing a bookshelf ledge to get a book. <Ref> Shemirat [[Shabbat]] KeHilchata 20:10, Sefer Tiltulei [[Shabbat]] (pg 39) in explanation of a need of the space. </ref> | # It’s permitted to move a [[Kli Sh’Melachto LeIssur]] if the object is in the way of getting something for a permitted purpose i.e. clearing a bookshelf ledge to get a book. <Ref> Shemirat [[Shabbat]] KeHilchata 20:10, Sefer Tiltulei [[Shabbat]] (pg 39) in explanation of a need of the space. </ref> | ||
# Many authorities hold that moving a [[Kli Sh’Melachto LeIssur]] to clean up clutter isn’t considered moving an item for its space and therefore it’s forbidden to move a [[Kli Sh’Melachto LeIssur]] item just to declutter. <Ref> Sh”t Igrot Moshe O”C 5:22-31, Shemirat [[Shabbat]] KeHilchata 20:10, Rav Elyashiv in Shalmei Yehuda (pg 11), and Sh”t Az Nidabru all hold that moving an item to clean up clutter isn’t considered moving an item because its space is needed. Similarly, Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]] vol 2 pg 415-6) writes that one should really not move a [[Kli Sh’Melachto LeIssur]] just to clean up for guests unless it’s done with a shinui but concludes that those who lenient have what to rely on. See Sh”t Machazeh Eliyahu 46 who is lenient. </ref> For example, it’s forbidden to move a pen from a table so that the table is clean for kavod [[Shabbat]]. <Ref> Tiltulei [[Shabbat]] (answers of Rav Moshe#6), this is also quoted in Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]] vol 2 pg 416) </ref> | # Many authorities hold that moving a [[Kli Sh’Melachto LeIssur]] to clean up clutter isn’t considered moving an item for its space and therefore it’s forbidden to move a [[Kli Sh’Melachto LeIssur]] item just to declutter. <Ref> Sh”t Igrot Moshe O”C 5:22-31, Shemirat [[Shabbat]] KeHilchata 20:10, Rav Elyashiv in Shalmei Yehuda (pg 11), and Sh”t Az Nidabru all hold that moving an item to clean up clutter isn’t considered moving an item because its space is needed. Similarly, Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]] vol 2 pg 415-6) writes that one should really not move a [[Kli Sh’Melachto LeIssur]] just to clean up for guests unless it’s done with a shinui but concludes that those who lenient have what to rely on. See Sh”t Machazeh Eliyahu 46 who is lenient. </ref> For example, it’s forbidden to move a pen from a table so that the table is clean for kavod [[Shabbat]]. <Ref> Tiltulei [[Shabbat]] (answers of Rav Moshe#6), this is also quoted in Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]] vol 2 pg 416) </ref> | ||
# Some authorities hold that a [[Kli Sh’Melachto LeIssur]] item shouldn’t be moved for it’s space if another space is available that serves the same purpose. <Ref> Sh”t Shevet HaLevi 1:127(9) makes no difference between the need for the object and the need for it’s space, in both cases one may only use it if another permitted one isn’t available. Sh”t Az Nidbaru 8:64 agrees but writes that the Mishna Brurah 308:12 didn’t spell this out since it’s obvious that if there’s another space available that’ll serve the same purpose of the space that the [[Kli Sh’Melachto LeIssur]] occupies that the [[Kli Sh’Melachto LeIssur]] shouldn’t be moved. </ref> | # Some authorities hold that a [[Kli Sh’Melachto LeIssur]] item shouldn’t be moved for it’s space if another space is available that serves the same purpose. <Ref> Sh”t Shevet HaLevi 1:127(9) makes no difference between the need for the object and the need for it’s space, in both cases one may only use it if another permitted one isn’t available. Sh”t Az Nidbaru 8:64 agrees but writes that the Mishna Brurah 308:12 didn’t spell this out since it’s obvious that if there’s another space available that’ll serve the same purpose of the space that the [[Kli Sh’Melachto LeIssur]] occupies that the [[Kli Sh’Melachto LeIssur]] shouldn’t be moved. Megilat Sefer Shabbat p. 257 suggests that it is clearly permitted to use a Kli Shemelachto Lisur for its place even if an alternative is available.</ref> | ||
# If one has a certain insistence on using the space that the [[Kli Sh’Melachto LeIssur]] occupies specifically and not another space that’s available, one may move the [[Kli Sh’Melachto LeIssur]]. <Ref> Sh”t Az Nidbaru 8:64, Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]] vol 2, pg 414-5) </ref> | # If one has a certain insistence on using the space that the [[Kli Sh’Melachto LeIssur]] occupies specifically and not another space that’s available, one may move the [[Kli Sh’Melachto LeIssur]]. <Ref> Sh”t Az Nidbaru 8:64, Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]] vol 2, pg 414-5) </ref> | ||
# Some say that it’s permitted to move the [[Kli Sh’Melachto LeIssur]] if it’s space is needed even if one’s primary intent is to move the object to protect it from breaking, while others forbid. <Ref> Sh”t Shevet HaLevi 1:127(6) understood Mishna Brurah 308:16 as saying that it’s permissible to move a [[Kli Sh’Melachto LeIssur]] even if one’s primary intent is to protect it whether it’s a need for the kli itself or a need for it’s space. However, Sh”t Az Nidbaru 8:64 argues that this leniency is only true regarding a need for the kli itself but not when the space is needed (especially if there’s other space available). </ref> | # Some say that it’s permitted to move the [[Kli Sh’Melachto LeIssur]] if it’s space is needed even if one’s primary intent is to move the object to protect it from breaking, while others forbid. <Ref> Sh”t Shevet HaLevi 1:127(6) understood Mishna Brurah 308:16 as saying that it’s permissible to move a [[Kli Sh’Melachto LeIssur]] even if one’s primary intent is to protect it whether it’s a need for the kli itself or a need for it’s space. However, Sh”t Az Nidbaru 8:64 argues that this leniency is only true regarding a need for the kli itself but not when the space is needed (especially if there’s other space available). </ref> | ||
