16,374
edits
Koshering a Kitchen: Difference between revisions
From Halachipedia
→Hagalah
| Line 11: | Line 11: | ||
* Chazon Ish OC 119:15 points out that according to this answer it can’t be used for a spice grinder since a dvar charif extracts tastes even though they weren’t used within 24 hours. However, the Mishna Brurah 451:80 seems to apply the rule of rov tashmisho even to a grinder. Chazon Ish answers that it is referring to a concern that it was used for chametz but we don’t know that it was ever used for chametz otherwise we couldn’t use the majority of uses. | * Chazon Ish OC 119:15 points out that according to this answer it can’t be used for a spice grinder since a dvar charif extracts tastes even though they weren’t used within 24 hours. However, the Mishna Brurah 451:80 seems to apply the rule of rov tashmisho even to a grinder. Chazon Ish answers that it is referring to a concern that it was used for chametz but we don’t know that it was ever used for chametz otherwise we couldn’t use the majority of uses. | ||
* However, there is a small group of rishonim that imply this even for ben yomo utensils biblically. The Machzor Vitri Hilchot Pesach ch. 4 writes that the torah established the categories of koshered based on majority uses. [https://books.google.com/books?id=CcdVDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT180&lpg=PT180&dq=%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%91+%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%A9%D7%95+%D7%94%D7%92%D7%A2%D7%9C%D7%94+%D7%A1%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%90&source=bl&ots=RhBy-LvyzG&sig=ACfU3U1MLaZxsX1byp3l0bG8-4nlp0KLkQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjj7qOu2c_hAhWLTd8KHZDeCJIQ6AEwB3oECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%91%20%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%A9%D7%95%20%D7%94%D7%92%D7%A2%D7%9C%D7%94%20%D7%A1%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%90&f=false Rav Aryeh Idnason in Haotzer v. 15 p. 189] explains that either the Machzor Vitri holds that taam kikar is derabbanan or that the Torah categorized utensils based on the majority.</ref> Initially Ashkenazim are concerned even for a minority of uses.<ref>Rama 451:6, Mishna Brurah 451:45</ref> | * However, there is a small group of rishonim that imply this even for ben yomo utensils biblically. The Machzor Vitri Hilchot Pesach ch. 4 writes that the torah established the categories of koshered based on majority uses. [https://books.google.com/books?id=CcdVDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT180&lpg=PT180&dq=%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%91+%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%A9%D7%95+%D7%94%D7%92%D7%A2%D7%9C%D7%94+%D7%A1%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%90&source=bl&ots=RhBy-LvyzG&sig=ACfU3U1MLaZxsX1byp3l0bG8-4nlp0KLkQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjj7qOu2c_hAhWLTd8KHZDeCJIQ6AEwB3oECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%91%20%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%A9%D7%95%20%D7%94%D7%92%D7%A2%D7%9C%D7%94%20%D7%A1%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%90&f=false Rav Aryeh Idnason in Haotzer v. 15 p. 189] explains that either the Machzor Vitri holds that taam kikar is derabbanan or that the Torah categorized utensils based on the majority.</ref> Initially Ashkenazim are concerned even for a minority of uses.<ref>Rama 451:6, Mishna Brurah 451:45</ref> | ||
#Hagalah means boiling water on the fire that is bubbling.<ref> | |||
Tur YD 121:3 cites a dispute whether or not it is sufficient to do hagalah on a pot with a kli rishon only if it is still on the fire or even if it is removed from the fire. Bet Yosef explains that it depends on whether you learn the definition of kli rishon from hilchot Shabbat in which case it is a kli rishon even off the fire or we should say that the taste is only removed in the way that it entered which is the temperature of a kli rishon on the fire. | |||
* Hagahot Smak 213 n. 5 that it needs to be boiling and not just yad soledet bo. Bet Yosef 452:1 and Shach (Nekudat Hakesef 93:1) quote this. Trumat Hadeshen 1:131, 2:150 agrees. | |||
* Maharshal 26 implies that yad soledet is sufficient for hagalah. Pri Megadim M”Z 452:3 does entertain that possibility that yad soledet is enough. He proves it from the Rambam maaseh korbanot 8:12. | |||
* Meor Hashemesh 1:2 p. 507 proves from the language of the Tur that rotchin is the same as yad soledet and that is sufficient for hagalah. He says that this is also the opinion of the Rosh Pesachim 2:7 and boiling is necessary that the taste doesn't reenter the pot. </ref> Some poskim hold that it always needs to be a bubbling boil, while others hold that it is sufficient if it was a permitted absorption (hetera baala).<ref>Shulchan Aruch YD 121:3 doesn’t resolve that question but simply writes that it is the same as hilchot pesach. Tur 451:6 only mentions the opinion that hagalah is effective even if it is removed from the fire. | |||
* Bach 451:8 is bothered by the discrepancy in the Tur and resolves it by saying that the Tur was only lenient if that is how the utensil is used off the fire. | |||
* Ayin Yitzchak YD 13:4 answers that chametz is hetera baala. Ayin Yitzchak YD 13:3-7 writes the opinion of the Rambam and Tur is that hagalah for hetera is effective even if the kli rishon was removed from the fire. However, for a utensil that was used on the fire even though it was hetera baala and it can be koshered with hagalah that would require hagalah with a kli rishon on the fire. He concludes that one can be lenient like the Rambam. (Hagalat Kelim p. 401 quotes the Kahal Yehuda 121:3 who points out that the Shulchan Aruch implies that he doesn’t accept that answer since he compared chametz with isura.) Shulchan Aruch Harav 451:25 also writes that one can rely on the opinion that hagalah off the fire is sufficient whenever it is hetera baala. Hagalat Kelim p. 401 quotes this also from Emek Sheylah 137:5. | |||
* Rama 452:1 implies that Shulchan Aruch holds that is enough. However, Magen Avraham 452:3, Chok Yakov 452:6, Taz 452:3, Pri Chadash 452:1, Ateret Zekenim 452:2, and Mishna Brurah 452:6 write that there is no such opinion. Bet Yosef meant that you don’t have to concern yourself that if it was boiling and then dipped below boiling that all of the beliyot would return to the kli.</ref> If a knife is only used off the fire it can be koshered with hagalah off the fire.<ref>Bach 452:8. Zichron Shaul v. 1 p. 73 explains that this Shulchan Aruch isn’t a proof in general for hagalah. Since knives are only used off the fire they can be koshered that way. Darkei Teshuva 121:49 cites the Yesharesh Yakov who says that only for knives can we use hagalah in a kli rishon off the fire. | |||
* Shulchan Aruch 451:3 writes that knives need hagalah but can be koshered with a kli rishon that was removed from the fire as long as it is boiling. Magen Avraham 451:7 clarifies that it is effective as long as it is yad soledet bo. Similarly, Yalkut Yosef Pesach Moadim Hechsher Kelim Lpesach n. 13 writes you can kosher knives with yad soledet bo even if the pot was removed from the fire. However, Mishna Brurah 451:20 implies that the hagalah is ineffective unless it is actually boiling. (This seemingly can’t mean a bubbling boil since water stops boiling immediately as it is removed from the fire, [https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/380748/why-does-water-stop-boiling-immediately-after-turning-off-the-heat Physics Stackexchange]). </ref> | |||
#Usually it is necessary to kosher a pot on the inside and the rim but if it is used on the outside of the pot such as a ladle it needs to be koshered on both sides.<ref>Magen Avraham 452:11 quoting the Maharil</ref> | #Usually it is necessary to kosher a pot on the inside and the rim but if it is used on the outside of the pot such as a ladle it needs to be koshered on both sides.<ref>Magen Avraham 452:11 quoting the Maharil</ref> | ||
#If one has a big pot and can't put it into another pot it should have a rim added to it and when the pot boils up the water will splash onto the rim and kosher it or one can boil a pot and drop a rock in so that the pot boils over the rim.<ref>Shulchan Aruch 452:6</ref> | #If one has a big pot and can't put it into another pot it should have a rim added to it and when the pot boils up the water will splash onto the rim and kosher it or one can boil a pot and drop a rock in so that the pot boils over the rim.<ref>Shulchan Aruch 452:6</ref> | ||
