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Milk and Meat in the Kitchen: Difference between revisions
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# If hot milk falls onto cold meat the meat is only forbidden up to the depth of a peel. Sephardim hold that the milk is permitted, while Ashkenazim hold that the milk is forbidden unless there is sixty times the area of contact to the depth of a peel.<ref>The gemara Pesachim 76a says that if hot milk falls onto cold meat the meat is forbidden up to a peel. Tosfot s.v. tanya quotes Rabbenu Tam who says that the milk isn't forbidden at all since it is impossible to remove a peel of a liquid. However, the Riva is quoted by Tosfot as disagreeing and stating that the milk is forbidden unless there is sixty times the depth of a peel where the contact was made. The Tur 91:4 infers from the Rambam that he sides with the Rabbenu Tam. Shulchan Aruch YD 91:4 holds like Rabbenu Tam, however, the Taz 91:7 and Badei Hashulchan 91:34 are strict for the Riva. </ref> | # If hot milk falls onto cold meat the meat is only forbidden up to the depth of a peel. Sephardim hold that the milk is permitted, while Ashkenazim hold that the milk is forbidden unless there is sixty times the area of contact to the depth of a peel.<ref>The gemara Pesachim 76a says that if hot milk falls onto cold meat the meat is forbidden up to a peel. Tosfot s.v. tanya quotes Rabbenu Tam who says that the milk isn't forbidden at all since it is impossible to remove a peel of a liquid. However, the Riva is quoted by Tosfot as disagreeing and stating that the milk is forbidden unless there is sixty times the depth of a peel where the contact was made. The Tur 91:4 infers from the Rambam that he sides with the Rabbenu Tam. Shulchan Aruch YD 91:4 holds like Rabbenu Tam, however, the Taz 91:7 and Badei Hashulchan 91:34 are strict for the Riva. </ref> | ||
# One shouldn’t pour water from a faucet or parve cup into a hot meat pan since the stream will affect the faucet making it meat like the pan, otherwise the faucet or parve cup will become meat. The same is true with a milk pan.<ref>Rama 105:3 cites the Mordechai who learns that pouring is considered a connection to transfer taste as we find by tumah (nisok chibur). The Rama concludes that it isn’t an issue after the fact. Gra explains that it isn’t possible to learn from tumah since that is dependant on a connection whereas kashrut depends on taste being transfered. Badei Hashulchan 92:180 concludes that it is initially forbidden to pour water from a parve cut or faucet into a hot meat pan since doing so could make the parve cup or faucet meat. Horah Brurah 105:41 agrees.</ref> | # One shouldn’t pour water from a faucet or parve cup into a hot meat pan since the stream will affect the faucet making it meat like the pan, otherwise the faucet or parve cup will become meat. The same is true with a milk pan.<ref>Rama 105:3 cites the Mordechai who learns that pouring is considered a connection to transfer taste as we find by tumah (nisok chibur). The Rama concludes that it isn’t an issue after the fact. Gra explains that it isn’t possible to learn from tumah since that is dependant on a connection whereas kashrut depends on taste being transfered. Badei Hashulchan 92:180 concludes that it is initially forbidden to pour water from a parve cut or faucet into a hot meat pan since doing so could make the parve cup or faucet meat. Horah Brurah 105:41 agrees.</ref> | ||
===Pouring=== | |||
# If hot meat from a kli rishon fell into cold milk or hot milk from a kli rishon fell onto cold meat the meat needs to have a klipah removed and the milk is permitted.<Ref>Shulchan Aruch 91:4</ref> | |||
# If the klipah wasn’t removed and it was cooked after the fact the it is permitted but if the klipah is recognizable it needs to be removed.<ref>Shach 91:8. The Isur Vheter 29 writes that anytime one can’t do klipah it is permitted since it was only a stringency when possible. Rama 91:7 codifies the Isur Vheter. Taz 91:7 holds like the Riva that a klipah needs to be nullified in sixty and isn’t permitted whenever it is impossible to do klipah. Pitchei Teshuva 91:5 quotes the Teshuvat Chen 11 who says that if it is an unbroken stream then the klipah is forbidden and needs sixty to be nullified. However, if it is a broken stream then it is permitted after the fact. 91:8 holds that after the fact if the klipah can be recognized it still needs to be removed.</ref> | |||
# If a cooked<ref>Hagahot Shaarei Dura 22:3 clarifies that roasting in this discussion isn’t specific and it is the same as being cooked in any other way as we know that food is softened by cooking more than roasting. Rama 91:7 codifies this.</ref> piece of hot meat from a kli rishon fell into a cold dairy salty liquid<ref>The Chagurat Shmuel 91:24 and Yad Yehuda Pirush Haaruch 91:37 cited by Darkei Teshuva 91:88 and 90 hold that the discussion is only with meat that fell into a liquid but not two solids that touch. See, however, Chavot Daat.</ref> | |||
</ref> if it was raw it could be washed off. If it was cooked it would be forbidden up to the level of a klipah. If it was spiced or has cracks it would be entirely forbidden. According to Ashkenazim even cold meat that fell into a cold dairy salty liquid is forbidden up to a klipah. If it has cracks or is spiced it is entirely forbidden.<ref>The Gemara Chullin 112a concludes that if a piece of chicken fell into a dairy liquid if the chicken is raw it can simply be washed off. If it is roasted then it is forbidden up to a klipah unless it has cracks or spiced in which case it is completely forbidden. There are three approaches in the rishonim: | |||
#The Rashba and Ran understand that the case of the roasted chicken is only an issue if it is still hot. Otherwise it would never absorb taste and could simply be washed off. | |||
#The Rosh, Tur, and Sefer Hatrumah hold that it is true even if the roasted chicken is cold. Additionally, the gemara’s condition of having cracks is true even if it is raw. | |||
#The Or Zaruah also maintains the gemara is relevant when the chicken is cold but the condition of having cracks is only relevant if it is roasted and not if it is raw. | |||
* Shulchan Aruch 91:7 follows the Rashba and Ran. The Rama 91:7 follows the Or Zaruah but in a case of great loss is lenient to accept the Rashba. Shach 91:21 isn’t sure if we should follow the Rashba even for a great loss.</ref> | |||
===Kli Sheni=== | ===Kli Sheni=== | ||
# If a hot piece of meat is cut with a cold dairy knife if the knife was used for dairy within 24 hours the amount of a "peel" needs to be removed from the meat. If it wasn't used within 24 hours the meat is kosher. The knife in either case needs to be cleaned off but not koshered.<ref>Rama Y.D. 94:7</ref> However, many poskim hold that the meat is completely not kosher and the knife needs to be koshered.<ref>Badei Hashulchan 94:101 cites the achronim who argue with the Rama including the Maharshal and sides with him unless there is a case of great loss. That is also the view of the Aruch Hashulchan.</ref> | # If a hot piece of meat is cut with a cold dairy knife if the knife was used for dairy within 24 hours the amount of a "peel" needs to be removed from the meat. If it wasn't used within 24 hours the meat is kosher. The knife in either case needs to be cleaned off but not koshered.<ref>Rama Y.D. 94:7</ref> However, many poskim hold that the meat is completely not kosher and the knife needs to be koshered.<ref>Badei Hashulchan 94:101 cites the achronim who argue with the Rama including the Maharshal and sides with him unless there is a case of great loss. That is also the view of the Aruch Hashulchan.</ref> | ||
