Anonymous

Zimmun: Difference between revisions

From Halachipedia
10,906 bytes added ,  12 May 2019
(16 intermediate revisions by 3 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
==Shir HaMaalot==
==Shir HaMaalot==
# One should say [[Al Neharot Bavel]] before [[benching]] after a meal and on days when there’s no [[tachanun]] one should say [[Shir HaMaalot]] BeShuv Hashem instead. The minhag is to say [[Shir HaMaalot]] at Seudot mitzvah as well. <Ref>Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 42:5, Mishna Brurah 1:10,11, Piskei Teshuvot 1:14 in the footnote. See also [http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/744860/Rabbi_Aryeh_Lebowitz/Ten_Minute_Halacha_-_Al_Naharos_Bavel_and_Shir_Hama'alos Rabbi Aryeh Lebowitz on the Ten Minute Halacha].</ref>
# One should say [[Al Neharot Bavel]] before [[benching]] after a meal and on days when there’s no [[tachanun]] one should say [[Shir HaMaalot]] BeShuv Hashem instead.<Ref>Magen Avraham 1:5, Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 42:5, Mishna Brurah 1:10,11</ref> The minhag is to say [[Shir HaMaalot]] at Seudot mitzvah as well.<ref>Byitzchak Yikareh of Rav Nevinsal 1:5, Piskei Teshuvot 181:14 in footnote 60. Piskei Teshuvot cites this minhag based on Hitorerut Teshuva 1:88 and others. See also [http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/744860/Rabbi_Aryeh_Lebowitz/Ten_Minute_Halacha_-_Al_Naharos_Bavel_and_Shir_Hama'alos Rabbi Aryeh Lebowitz on the Ten Minute Halacha].</ref>
 
==Obligation of Zimmun==
==Obligation of Zimmun==
# If three people eat together are obligated to make a Zimmun before [[benching]] (making [[Birkat HaMazon]]). <ref> S”A 192:1 </ref> Chazal based it on the pasuk “גדלו לה" אתי ונרוממה ה" יחדיו” <ref> Tehilim 34 </ref> and “כי שם ה" אקרא הבו גודל לאלוקונו” <ref> Devarim 30. Gemara [[Brachot]] 45 quoted by the Mishna Brurah 192:1. </ref>.
# If three people eat together are obligated to make a Zimmun before [[benching]] (making [[Birkat HaMazon]]). <ref> S”A 192:1 </ref> Chazal based it on the pasuk “גדלו לה" אתי ונרוממה שמו יחדיו” <ref> Tehilim 34 </ref> and “כי שם ה" אקרא הבו גודל לאלוקונו” <ref> Devarim 30. Gemara [[Brachot]] 45 quoted by the Mishna Brurah 192:1. </ref>.
# Most authorities consider Zimmun to be a rabbinic obligation. <ref> Pri Megadim (A”A 197:2) writes that most authorities consider zimmun to be of rabbinic obligation. Chaye Adam 48:1 writes that Zimmun is derabbanan and some say it’s Deoritta. Chazon Ish (31:1) argues that Zimmun should be Deoritta. </ref>
# Most authorities consider Zimmun to be a rabbinic obligation. <ref> Pri Megadim (A”A 197:2) writes that most authorities consider zimmun to be of rabbinic obligation. Chaye Adam 48:1 writes that Zimmun is derabbanan and some say it’s Deoritta. Chazon Ish (31:1) argues that Zimmun should be Deoritta. </ref>
# Zimmun could be said in any language as the purpose is to introduce the [[benching]] orally and join the group together to praise Hashem. <ref> Zohar (Balak pg 186b) writes that it’s important to precede [[benching]] with “give us a cup to bench” in Hebrew or Aramaic to introduce the [[benching]] to bring the [[kedusha]]. Mishna Brurah 192:2 quotes this and writes the minhag ashkenaz was to say Zimmun in Yiddish “Rabbotei Mir Velin Benchin”. Kol Bo (Siman 25) emphasizes the group merit of the zimmun. </ref>
# Zimmun could be said in any language as the purpose is to introduce the [[benching]] orally and join the group together to praise Hashem. <ref> Zohar (Balak pg 186b) writes that it’s important to precede [[benching]] with “give us a cup to bench” in Hebrew or Aramaic to introduce the [[benching]] to bring the [[kedusha]]. Mishna Brurah 192:2 quotes this and writes the minhag ashkenaz was to say Zimmun in Yiddish “Rabbotei Mir Velin Benchin”. Kol Bo (Siman 25) emphasizes the group merit of the zimmun. </ref>
# Some say that answering Zimmun is considered one of a person’s hundred [[Brachot]] every day. <Ref> Sefer Keysad Mezamnin 1:22 </ref>
# Some say that answering Zimmun is considered one of a person’s hundred [[Brachot]] every day. <Ref> Sefer Keysad Mezamnin 1:22 </ref>
# When we say the zimmun Sephardim have a practice of starting “הב לן נברך למלכא עילאה קדישא”. Then for Shabbat they insert “ברשות שבת מלכתא” and for Yom Tov “ברשות יומא טבא אושפיזא קדישא”. For Sukkot the practice is to insert “וברשות שבעה אושפיזין עלאין קדישין”.<Ref>Ben Ish Chai Korach n. 1 records the minhag to insert special requests for permission from Shabbat, Yom Tov, and the Ushpizin. Yalkut Yosef 192:1 agrees. He cites the Yafeh Llev 1:192:5 who argues that this is a real minhag and it appears as though one is believing in two gods. Also he is degrading Hashem’s dynasty by comparing it with other entities. Yalkut Yosef defends the minhag that one’s intent isn’t to compare Hashem to anything and it is just for honor to mention them. Mayim Chaim 2:17 agrees.</ref>
# Some say that one should ask permission from the wife of the host in the zimmun as well.<ref>[https://eretzhemdah.org/newsletterArticle.asp?lang=he&pageid=48&cat=1&newsletter=949&article=3637 Mareh Habazak 5:9] writes that one should ask permission from the wife of the host in the zimmun since it is socially appropriate and nice it should be obligatory. He explains that the asking permission in zimmun isn’t really asking permission but just an honor. See the Sephardim practice of mentioning Shabbat and Yom Tov in the zimmun.</ref>
==Who Should be Given the Honor of Zimmun?==
==Who Should be Given the Honor of Zimmun?==
# If there are guests, the homeowner should honor one of the guests with zimmun and he can even choose one of them who isn't the greatest talmid chacham.<ref>Shulchan Aruch 201:1, Mishna Brurah 201:4</ref>
# If there are guests, the homeowner should honor one of the guests with zimmun and he can even choose one of them who isn't the greatest talmid chacham.<ref>Shulchan Aruch 201:1, Mishna Brurah 201:4</ref>
Line 19: Line 23:


==If a Member of the Zimmun Left or Benched==
==If a Member of the Zimmun Left or Benched==
# If three ate together and were obligated in Zimmun and one forgot about Zimmun and said [[Birkat HaMazon]] then the other two can say zimmun with the third. <Ref>Shulchan Aruch 194:1 </ref> However, if one of the group answered Zimmun with another group he can’t answer another zimmun of three. <Ref>Rama 194:1 </ref>
===If a Member of the Zimmun already Said Birkat Hamazon===
# If three ate together and were obligated in Zimmun and one forgot about Zimmun and said [[Birkat HaMazon]] then the other two can say zimmun with the third. <Ref>Rava Tosfa in Gemara Brachot 50a states that if three people ate together and one said birkat hamazon then the other two can afterwards include him in the zimmun, even though he doesn't fulfill his obligation, they fulfill their obligation. Rambam Brachot 5:14, Rosh Brachot 7:28, and Shulchan Aruch 194:1 codify this as the halacha.</ref> However, if one of the group already answered Zimmun with another group he can’t answer another zimmun of three. <Ref>Rav Hai Goan (cited by Rashba 50a s.v iy nami) understood Rava on 50a to mean that if there were three groups of three people who ate bread together and one from each group joined together for a zimmun the others would be exempted from a zimmun. The reason is that since the original groups only had three people once one of them answered a zimmun he is discounted from their group and as such they can't make a zimmun anymore. The Rashba explains that according to Rav Hai Gaon only if the other person answered a zimmun is he disqualified from joining their group, but if he forgot and say birkat hamazon without a zimun he wouldn't invalidate his group's zimmun and he can join their zimmun although he isn't going to fulfill his obligation. Rama 194:1 holds like Rav Hai Goan. Bet Yosef 193:6 cites it.
* Furthermore, the opinion of Rashi 50b s.v. vlo, Tosfot 50a s.v. aval, and Rambam Brachot 5:11 explain the gemara Brachot 50a to mean that if a person answered a zimmun and then joined another group he can't answer another zimmun. </ref>
# If three people ate bread together, and two forgot to wait for Zimmun, the other one can not do Zimmun with the ones who already Benched. <ref> The Rosh Brachot 7:28 writes that if two of them already said birkat hamazon there's no more obligation of zimmun for any of them. He infers it from the gemara that says only if one already said Birkat Hamazon implying if it was more then there would be no obligation of zimmun anymore. Rashba Brachot 50a s.v. inhu and Hagahot Maimoniyot 5:30 agree. Maamer Mordechai 194:3 and Keysad Mezamnin 194:5 p. 112 codify this.</ref>
# If four ate bread and two forgot and said birkat hamazon the other two can create a zimmun with one of the ones who already said birkat hamazon.<ref>Maamer Mordechai 194:3 explains that although the Rashba explains that one can only create a zimmun if a majority of the original group is there, since two need to say birkat hamazon they would have a zimmun even if only one of those who already said birkat hamazon would join them. Biur Halacha 194:1 s.v. echad agrees.</ref>
# If three people ate together, two ate bread and one ate a [[Kezayit]] of something else or drank a [[Revi'it]] of a drink (other than water) are obligated to make Zimmun. <ref> Mishna Brurah 197:20 writes that if one out of three people ate a [[Kezayit]] of a food (other than bread) or drank a reviyat of drinks (other than water), the three people can still make Zimmun. </ref>
# If one of three only had a [[Kezayit]] of another food or a reviyat of drinks, and one of those who ate bread forgot to wait for Zimmun and Benched, the other one who ate bread can no longer make Zimmun. <Ref> Eliya Rabba has a doubt about the case where two ate bread with someone who ate a kezayit of another food and one who ate bread said birkat hamazon if they can still have a zimmun. Perhaps since majority of the group still didn't say a bracha achrona they can have a zimmun or perhaps since only the one who had bread and still didn't say birkat hamazon needs a zimmun the obligation of the zimmun disappeared. He concludes that the latter approach is more reasonable. Birkei Yosef (Shiurei Bracha 194:1), Maamar Mordechai 194:3, Magen Giborim (Elef Hamagen 194:1), and Biur Halacha 194:1 s.v. echad agree. Maamer Mordechai elaborates that according to the Rosh the one who already said birkat hamazon is like someone who ate a kezayit of another food so if the other two ate bread that would create a zimmun. But according to the Rambam that someone who ate a kezayit of another food can't join for a zimmun of three the one who already said birkat hamazon is better than someone who ate a kezayit but either way in this case there's no zimmun.</ref>
# If one of three only had a [[Kezayit]] of another food or a reviyat of drinks, and the one who didn’t eat bread forgot to wait for Zimmun and made [[Bracha Achrona]], the other two  who ate bread can no longer make Zimmun. <Ref> Magen Avraham 197:4 quotes the Aguda who writes that if one who didn't eat bread forgot and made a bracha achrona he is no longer included in the zimmun at all and it is unlike someone who ate bread and then forgot and recited birkat hamazon. Maamar Mordechai 194:3 and Mishna Brurah 197:9 agree.</ref>
# If there's a zimmun of ten and one already said birkat hamazon, according to Ashkenazim they can still recite a zimmun with Shem even though the one who already said birkat hamazon doesn't fulfill his obligation everyone else does. In fact this works even if three already said birkat hamazon. According to Sephardim they can not make a zimmun with a shem.<ref>Bet Yosef 193:1 s.v. vchen holds that someone who already said zimmun can join a zimmun of three but not a zimmun of ten. Birkei Yosef 194:1 agrees. Keysad Mezamnin p. 118 explains that a zimmun of ten requires a greater level of establishment to create a zimmun than a zimmun of three (Brachot 45b) and therefore someone who already said birkat hamazon can't join.  However, the Eliya Rabba 194:1 argues. Biur Halacha 194:1 s.v. echad agrees.</ref>
 
===When is it Permitted to Leave?===
# If three people ate in three different groups of three they shouldn't leave their groups and form their own zimmun because doing so will invalidate their original groups.<ref>Rav Hai Goan's understanding of Brachot 50a, Rashba 50a s.v. iy nami, Rama 193:6</ref>
# If three people ate in three groups of four or more people they can leave their groups and form their own zimmun because their original groups will still have their own zimmun.<ref>Rashba Brachot 50a s.v. iy nami, Rama 193:6</ref>
===If a Member of the Zimmun Left===
# If someone in a group of four and one left and they did zimmun while he wasn't there he is exempt from zimmun and he can't later join a zimmun. The same is true if he was part of a group of three and he left and someone else replaced him and they did a zimmun without him, he lost his obligation of zimmun.<ref>Rosh Brachot 7:29 quotes Rabbenu Yehuda who explains that the gemara meant that if the original groups did zimmun the ones who left lost their obligation of zimmun. Even though the Rosh argues with Rabbenu Yehuda, Rabbenu Yonah 36a s.v gemara and Raavad Brachot 5:11 agree with Rabbenu Yehuda. Rashba 50a s.v. iy nami implies that he agrees. Shulchan Aruch OC 193:6 codifies the opinion of Rabbenu Yehuda.</ref>
# If three ate together and one person left he could be called back and Zimmun could be said even if he’s standing by the door next to them, however he should say [[Birkat HaMazon]] where he ate. However, if ten people ate together and one left he should be called back and everyone should sit down for Zimmun. <Ref>Gemara Brachot 45b, Shulchan Aruch OC 194:2, Mishna Brurah 194:8 </ref>
# If three ate together and one person left he could be called back and Zimmun could be said even if he’s standing by the door next to them, however he should say [[Birkat HaMazon]] where he ate. However, if ten people ate together and one left he should be called back and everyone should sit down for Zimmun. <Ref>Gemara Brachot 45b, Shulchan Aruch OC 194:2, Mishna Brurah 194:8 </ref>


==A Zimmun of Ten==
==A Zimmun of Ten==
# If ten people ate bread together, they are supposed to add the word Elokenu in the Zimmun.<ref>Shulchan Aruch 192:1</ref>
# If ten people ate bread together, they are supposed to add the word Elokenu in the Zimmun.<ref>Shulchan Aruch 192:1</ref>
# If seven people ate bread and three people ate a [[kezayit]] of another food or drank a [[reviyit]] of a drink other than water, they can join together for a Zimmun with the insertion of Elokenu. If there are only six people who ate bread they can't make a Zimmun with Elokenu. <ref>Shulchan Aruch 197:2</ref>
# If seven people ate bread and three people ate a [[kezayit]] of another food or drank a [[reviyit]] of a drink<ref>The Kol Bo 25 cited by Bet Yosef has a doubt whether those joining have to eat a kezayit or reviyit of drink to join or anything is sufficient. Shulchan Aruch rules that a kezayit of food or reviyit of drink is necessary.</ref> other than water, they can join together for a Zimmun with the insertion of Elokenu. If there are only six people who ate bread they can't make a Zimmun with Elokenu. <ref>Shulchan Aruch 197:2. Rav is quoted in Gemara Brachot 48a as saying that if one of the ten ate a vegetable he can join for a zimmun. Tosfot s.v. tisha adds that even drinking counts like eating. Rambam Brachot 5:8, Tur and Shulchan Aruch 197:2 codify this gemara.
# According to Sephardim, one doesn't have to stand for the word Elokenu in the Zimmun. <ref>Halacha Brurah 192:12</ref> Many Ashkenazim have the custom to stand for the word Elokenu in a zimmun of ten, however those who don't stand have what to rely on.<Ref>Sh"t Bear Moshe 1:2</ref>
* Rabbi Zeira asked whether two or three people who ate a vegetable can join and Rav Yehuda told him that they could. Rabbi Zeira didn't ask whether four who ate vegetables can join because he thought that you need a significant majority. Rabbi Yirmiya argued that four could join which there is still a majority of those who had bread. Rashi understands that Rabbi Zeira didn't ask original because of his idea but really he regretted that he didn't ask about four. The Bet Yosef 197:2 explains for the Rambam and others that Rabbi Zeira was steadfast in his opinion that four can't join. Interestingly, the Or Zaruah 1:197 cited by Bet Yosef in fact holds that four can join. Shulchan Aruch doesn't hold like the Or Zaruah.</ref>
# According to Sephardim, one doesn't have to stand for the word Elokenu in the Zimmun. <ref>Halacha Brurah 192:12</ref> Some Ashkenazim have the custom to stand for the word Elokenu in a zimmun of ten, however those who don't stand have what to rely on.<Ref>Sh"t Bear Moshe 1:2 compares standing for Elokenu of zimmun to standing for barchu and concludes that one should stand but if one doesn't there is what to rely upon. [https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/897474/rabbi-hershel-schachter/berachos-87-44b-45b-lishmor-chukav-zman-tefillin-muktzeh-mayim-letzmao-zimmun-/ Rav Schachter (Brachot Shiur 87 at the end)] said that Rav Soloveitchik's minhag was not to stand for Elokenu of zimmun of ten but those who do stand think that it is like a dvar shebekedusha (Kesef Mishna Brachot 5:7).
* Is Zimmun a Dvar Shebekedusha? The Rambam Brachot 5:7 writes that even though women can have a zimun on their own they can’t have a zimun of ten with Elokenu. (Interestingly, the Sefer Meorot Brachot 45a argues on the Rambam.) Kesef Mishna Brachot 5:7 explains that a zimun with Elokenu is a dvar shebekedusha. Meiri Brachot 47b s.v. nashim, Bach 199:7, Perisha 199:16, Ateret Tzvi 199:5, and Mishna Brurah 199:15 agree with this statement explicitly. However, Even Haazel Brachot 5:7 and Divrei Yirmiyahu Brachot 5:7 argue that zimun with Elokenu really isn’t a dvar shebekedusha but requires a minyan for the respect of Hashem’s name (Brachot 45b) and that’s why a child can join for zimun. (See Meiri who tries to address this.) Kavod Yom Tov Brachot 5:7 provides a compromise calling it a minor dvar shebekedusha.</ref>


==Two who ate together==
==Two who ate together==
# Three who ate together must do Zimmun and each one is not allowed to leave the Zimmun. However, if there’s six or more in the Zimmun, the group is allowed to split into two groups of three. If there’s ten then each one isn’t allowed to leave the Zimmun as they are obligated in ZImmun with a mentioning of Hashem’s name. However, if there’s twenty the group may split into two groups of ten. <Ref>S”A 193:1 </ref>  
# Three who ate together must do Zimmun and each one is not allowed to leave the Zimmun. However, if there’s six or more in the Zimmun, the group is allowed to split into two groups of three. If there’s ten then each one isn’t allowed to leave the Zimmun as they are obligated in Zimmun with a mentioning of Hashem’s name. However, if there’s twenty the group may split into two groups of ten. <Ref>S”A 193:1 </ref>  
# Some say that it’s always preferable to join together in a larger group while others contend that once one is joining in a group of three or ten there’s no obligation to join in a larger group. <Ref>Rama 193:2, Mishna Brurah 193:11 </ref>
# Some say that it’s always preferable to join together in a larger group while others contend that once one is joining in a group of three or ten there’s no obligation to join in a larger group. <Ref>Rama 193:2, Mishna Brurah 193:11 </ref>
# If three people ate together in the beginning or they finished together (and it’s considered as if they finished together if they still would eat something had if be brought to them) then there’s an obligation of Zimmun. <Ref>Mishna Brurah 193:19 </ref>
# If three people ate together in the beginning or they finished together (and it’s considered as if they finished together if they still would eat something had if be brought to them) then there’s an obligation of Zimmun. <Ref>Mishna Brurah 193:19 </ref>
# Two who ate together aren't obligated in Zimmun and therefore, they should say [[Birkat HaMazon]] to themselves. However, if one of them doesn’t know how to say [[Birkat HaMazon]] and the other does, then the one who knows may say it aloud and fulfill the obligation of the one who doesn't know as long as the one saying has intent to fulfill the obligation of the other, and the one listening has intent to fulfill his obligation. <ref>S”A 193:1 </ref>
# Two who ate together aren't obligated in Zimmun and therefore, they should say [[Birkat HaMazon]] to themselves.<ref>The Gemara Brachot discusses whether two people can create a zimmun. Rabbi Yochanan holds that two people can't have a zimmun but Rav holds they can. The Rif 33a, Rosh Brachot 7:6, Or Zaruah Brachot n. 184, and Rambam Brachot 5:16 hold like Rabbi Yochanan. Shulchan Aruch 193:1 codifies the opinion of Rabbi Yochanan. </ref> However, if one of them doesn’t know how to say [[Birkat HaMazon]] and the other does, then the one who knows may say it aloud and fulfill the obligation of the one who doesn't know as long as the one saying has intent to fulfill the obligation of the other, and the one listening has intent to fulfill his obligation. <ref>Gemara 45b establishes that if someone doesn't know how to say birkat hamazon he can fulfill his obligation by listening to someone who does know how to say birkat hamazon. Rif 33a, Rosh 6:7, Rambam Brachot 5:15, and Shulchan Aruch 193:1 quote this as the halacha. </ref>
# According to some it’s crucial that the one who is listening understand the [[Birkat HaMazon]], while others are lenient and say that such is the minhag. <Ref>Mishna Brurah 193:5 </ref>
# According to many opinions it is crucial that the one who is listening understand the [[Birkat HaMazon]]. Some poskim are lenient and add that such was the minhag. <Ref>Tosfot Brachot 45b s.v. shani concludes that if a person doesn't understand the birkat hamazon he can't fulfill his obligation with a zimmun. Mordechai, Or Zaruah Brachot n. 186, Rabbenu Yonah Brachot 33a s.v. vnira, and Rosh Brachot 7:6 agree. However, the Rosh cites Rashi who held that even if those listening don't understand they can fulfill their obligation by listening to birkat hamazon in Hebrew as we find by Megillah 17a. Tur and Shulchan Aruch 193:1 hold like the Tosfot. Darkei Moshe 193:1 writes that the minhag is to rely on Rashi. Magen Avraham 193:2 and Mishna Brurah 193:5 accept the Darkei Moshe.
# If two people ate bread and a third person ate a [[kezayit]] of another food, some rishonim hold that they may not join together to make a zimmun, while other rishonim hold that they may join together for a zimmun. Many poskim hold that if the third person doesn't want to eat bread, one may join together for a zimmun. <Ref>
* The Birkat Avraham 9:287 (cited by Olot Tamid 193:2) writes that even Shulchan Aruch would accept that for a zimmun of three it is possible to fulfill the obligation of someone who doesn't understand Hebrew and it is only an issue if there's only two people. However, the Olot Tamid argues that Shulchan Aruch doesn't distinguish. (Tosfot Brachot 45b s.v. shani explicitly is against the Birkat Avraham.) Biur Halacha 193:1 s.v. eino cites the Birkat Avraham.</ref>
===Two Who Ate Bread and a Third Ate Other Foods===
# If two people ate bread and a third person ate a [[kezayit]] of another food, some rishonim hold that they may not join together to make a zimmun, while other rishonim hold that they may join together for a zimmun. Ideally the third person should eat bread and join for a zimmun. If he doesn't want to, they can join for a zimmun of three. <Ref>
* Rif Brachot 35b holds that someone who ate something besides bread can be counted for a zimmun of ten and not for a zimmun of three. Rambam Brachot 5:8, Rashba Brachot 48a s.v. ulinyan, and Sar Mkusi (Tosfot Brachot 48a s.v. tisha) agree. However, the Ri (Tosfot Brachot 48a s.v. tisha), Rabbenu Yonah 35b s.v. vafilu, and Rosh Brachot 7:21 argue that there’s no distinction between a zimun of three and ten and one person who ate something besides bread can join a zimun of three.  
* Rif Brachot 35b holds that someone who ate something besides bread can be counted for a zimmun of ten and not for a zimmun of three. Rambam Brachot 5:8, Rashba Brachot 48a s.v. ulinyan, and Sar Mkusi (Tosfot Brachot 48a s.v. tisha) agree. However, the Ri (Tosfot Brachot 48a s.v. tisha), Rabbenu Yonah 35b s.v. vafilu, and Rosh Brachot 7:21 argue that there’s no distinction between a zimun of three and ten and one person who ate something besides bread can join a zimun of three.  
* According to Tosfot unlike Rif and Rambam, what do you need to eat? Tosfot 48a s.v. tisha says that anything including a drink is sufficient. Bet Yosef 197:3 cites the Kol Bo 25 who says that you can only join a zimmun of three if you ate mezonot.  
* According to Tosfot unlike Rif and Rambam, what do you need to eat? Tosfot 48a s.v. tisha says that anything including a drink is sufficient. Bet Yosef 197:3 cites the Kol Bo 25 who says that you can only join a zimmun of three if you ate mezonot.  
* Shulchan Aruch 197:3 writes that there are three opinions as to whether two who ate bread may join in a zimmun with a third person who didn't eat bread. The first opinion holds that one may not join together for a three person zimmun unless all three people ate bread. The second opinion holds that they may join together as long as the third person ate [[mezonot]]. The last opinion holds that as long as the third person ate anything, they may join together for a zimmun. Shulchan Aruch writes that in order to avoid a dispute one should not allow a third person who doesn't want to eat bread to join with the first two who are eating bread. The Mishna Brurah 197:22, however, writes that the minhag is in accordance with the last opinion allowing a zimmun of three as long as the third person ate something. Halacha Brurah 197:12 also writes that some are lenient. Chacham Ovadia Yosef in Sh"t Yechave Daat 4:13 (in the footnote) quotes the Knesset HaGedola who says that the minhag is to allow a zimmun of three as long as the third person ate something. He explains that the only reason Shulchan Aruch said one should avoid such a zimmun is because in his day people used to listen to the [[birkat hamazon]] of the leader of the zimmun, however, nowadays since everyone says the [[birkat hamazon]] to themselves such a zimmun is allowed. Mishna Brurah 197:20 notes that the third person must eat at least a [[kezayit]] in order to obligate a bracha achrona. Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 45:10, Shulchan Aruch 196:3, and BI"H , Korach, 5 say that ideally the third person joining two others who ate bread for a zimmun should have at least a kazayit of mezonot or wine but it is permissible to join as long as he had a kazayit of any other fruit, vegetable, or drink besides water. </ref>
* Shulchan Aruch 197:3 writes that there are three opinions as to whether two who ate bread may join in a zimmun with a third person who didn't eat bread. The first opinion holds that one may not join together for a three person zimmun unless all three people ate bread. The second opinion holds that they may join together as long as the third person ate [[mezonot]]. The last opinion holds that as long as the third person ate anything, they may join together for a zimmun. Shulchan Aruch writes that in order to avoid a dispute one should not allow a third person who doesn't want to eat bread to join with the first two who are eating bread. The Mishna Brurah 197:22, however, writes that the minhag is in accordance with the last opinion allowing a zimmun of three as long as the third person ate something. Halacha Brurah 197:12 also writes that some are lenient. Chacham Ovadia Yosef in Sh"t Yechave Daat 4:13 (in the footnote) quotes the Knesset HaGedola who says that the minhag is to allow a zimmun of three as long as the third person ate something. He explains that the only reason Shulchan Aruch said one should avoid such a zimmun is because in his day people used to listen to the [[birkat hamazon]] of the leader of the zimmun, however, nowadays since everyone says the [[birkat hamazon]] to themselves such a zimmun is allowed. Mishna Brurah 197:20 notes that the third person must eat at least a [[kezayit]] in order to obligate a bracha achrona. Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 45:10, Shulchan Aruch 196:3, and Ben Ish Chai (Korach n. 5) say that ideally the third person joining two others who ate bread for a zimmun should have at least a kazayit of mezonot or wine but it is permissible to join as long as he had a kazayit of any other fruit, vegetable, or drink besides water. </ref>
# If two people eat bread together and a third person ate a [[kezayit]] of another food, if one of those who ate bread said [[Birkat HaMazon]] without Zimmun, many poskim hold that there is no obligation of Zimmun.<ref>Beiur Halacha 194:1 s.v. Echad cites the Eliyah Rabba who has a safek about this and concludes that there is no obligation for Zimmin. He quotes the Maamar Mordechai, Birkei Yosef, and Magen Giborim as agreeing. Sefer Keysad Mezamnin (9:22, p. 123) concurs.</ref>
# If two people eat bread together and a third person ate a [[kezayit]] of another food, if one of those who ate bread said [[Birkat HaMazon]] without Zimmun, many poskim hold that there is no obligation of Zimmun.<ref>Beiur Halacha 194:1 s.v. Echad cites the Eliyah Rabba who has a safek about this and concludes that there is no obligation for Zimmin. He quotes the Maamar Mordechai, Birkei Yosef, and Magen Giborim as agreeing. Sefer Keysad Mezamnin (9:22, p. 123) concurs.</ref>
# If two people eat bread together and a third person ate a [[kezayit]] of another food, if the one who ate the other food said a [[Bracha Achrona]] without Zimmun, there is no obligation of Zimmun.<ref>Chaye Adam 48:1 writes that if two people eat bread together and a third person ate a [[kezayit]] of another food, if the one who ate the other food said a [[Bracha Achrona]] without Zimmun, there is no obligation of Zimmun since the one who ate food other than bread had a non-permanent meal to begin with and has already made a bracha achrona. Sefer Keysad Mezamnin (9:20, p. 122) concurs.</ref>
# If two people eat bread together and a third person ate a [[kezayit]] of another food, if the one who ate the other food said a [[Bracha Achrona]] without Zimmun, there is no obligation of Zimmun.<ref>Chaye Adam 48:1 writes that if two people eat bread together and a third person ate a [[kezayit]] of another food, if the one who ate the other food said a [[Bracha Achrona]] without Zimmun, there is no obligation of Zimmun since the one who ate food other than bread had a non-permanent meal to begin with and has already made a bracha achrona. Sefer Keysad Mezamnin (9:20, p. 122) concurs.</ref>
Line 88: Line 110:
# Ashkenazi Ketanim should still answer to a zimmun that they hear according to how much they ate with those bentching.<ref>The Piskei Teshuvot (199:5) says that they should answer as appropriate to other people's zimmun based on [[Chinuch]] if they ate together with those making a zimmun.</ref>
# Ashkenazi Ketanim should still answer to a zimmun that they hear according to how much they ate with those bentching.<ref>The Piskei Teshuvot (199:5) says that they should answer as appropriate to other people's zimmun based on [[Chinuch]] if they ate together with those making a zimmun.</ref>
#Some say that two adult women and a female minor who eat together may make a zimmun.<ref>The Kaf HaChaim (199:21) sounds like they have to be three Gedolot. The Hebrew-English Yalkut Yosef in the footnotes quotes a Maayan Omer (pg 305) that says it's permissible.</ref>
#Some say that two adult women and a female minor who eat together may make a zimmun.<ref>The Kaf HaChaim (199:21) sounds like they have to be three Gedolot. The Hebrew-English Yalkut Yosef in the footnotes quotes a Maayan Omer (pg 305) that says it's permissible.</ref>
==Zimmun after someone already Benched==
# If three people ate bread together, and one forgot to wait for Zimmun, the other two can do Zimmun with the one who already Benched. <ref> S”A 194:1 writes that if one out of three people in a Zimmun said [[Birkat HaMazon]] they can still make a Zimmun to fulfill the obligation of the two and the one who said [[Birkat HaMazon]] will not fulfill his obligation because a Zimmun must be said before [[Birkat HaMazon]]. </ref>
# If three people ate together, two ate bread and one ate a [[Kezayit]] of something else or drank a [[Revi'it]] of a drink (other than water) are obligated to make Zimmun. <ref> Mishna Brurah 197:20 writes that if one out of three people ate a [[Kezayit]] of a food (other than bread) or drank a reviyat of drinks (other than water), the three people can still make Zimmun. </ref>
# If one of three only had a [[Kezayit]] of another food or a reviyat of drinks, and one of those who ate bread forgot to wait for Zimmun and Benched, the other one who ate bread can no longer make Zimmun. <Ref> Mishna Brurah 197:9 </ref>
# If one of three only had a [[Kezayit]] of another food or a reviyat of drinks, and the one who didn’t eat bread forgot to wait for Zimmun and made [[Bracha Achrona]], the other two  who ate bread can no longer make Zimmun. <Ref> Mishna Brurah 194 (Beiur Halacha s.v. Echad Mehem) quotes tha Eliya Rabba who is unsure whether the one who ate bread and didn’t make [[Birkat HaMazon]] can make Zimmun and concludes that since there’s only one who is obligated (and can fulfill their obligation) they can’t make Zimmun. Such is also the opinion of the Birkei Yosef, Mamer Mordechai, and Magen Giborim. </ref>


==Safek Zimmun==
==Safek Zimmun==
9

edits