Zimmun: Difference between revisions
From Halachipedia
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== Who has the obligation?== | == Who has the obligation?== | ||
# | # There is only an obligation to have a zimmun if three or more people eat together. The three conditions to be considered “together” is that those who are eating 1) eat while seated, 2) sit at one table, and 3) start or end the meal together. <ref> Shulchan Aruch 193:2 writes that a third person can join two that already started eating if he is “Koveh” (establishes his place) with them. Mishna Brurah 193:21 writes that if one doesn’t eat while sitting and eat at the same table one isn’t considered as being Koveh with the others. Magen Avraham 195:2 and Mishna Brurah 197:3 also include the requirement of sitting at the same table. </ref> They are considered starting together if they all start to eat the first kezayit of bread while the others are still eating that first kezayit.<ref>Tosfot Brachot 45a s.v. shelosha, Vezot Habracha p. 131 citing Rav Elyashiv and Rav Tzvi Weber. He also quotes Rav Sheinberg who said that if they went to wash at the same time it is like they started together.</ref> | ||
# If two groups ate in different places in the same house and they could see from one group to another, if they have intent (when they began the meal) to join for Zimmun they may join, however, if if they didn’t have intent, then according to Sephardim they may not join for Zimmun, but according to Ashkenazim it’s a dispute whether they may join for zimmun. <Ref> | ===Zimmun When They Didn't Establish Together=== | ||
# If three people aren’t obligated to make Zimmun as they didn’t join their meals, the | # If two groups ate in different places in the same house and they could see from one group to another, if they have intent (when they began the meal) to join for Zimmun they may join, however, if if they didn’t have intent, then according to Sephardim they may not join for Zimmun, but according to Ashkenazim it’s a dispute whether they may join for zimmun. <Ref>Shulchan Aruch OC 195:1, Mishna Brurah 195:6 </ref> | ||
# If three ate together and were obligated in Zimmun and one forgot about Zimmun and said [[Birkat HaMazon]] then the other two can say zimmun with the third. <Ref> | ## If in a school or yeshiva, the students go to lunch at the same time, the group can make Zimmun together even if they sit at separate tables as long as they can see from one table to another. Even if they don’t have enough at each table to make their own Zimmun of ten, they can join together to make a Zimmun of ten. However, it’s preferable that they one time actual say verbally that they intend to eat together. <ref> Yalkut Yosef (vol 3 pg 375) </ref> | ||
# If three ate together and one person left he could be called back and Zimmun could be said even if he’s standing by the door next to them, however he should say [[Birkat HaMazon]] where he ate. However, if ten people ate together and one left he should be called back and everyone should sit down for Zimmun. <Ref> | # If three people aren’t obligated to make Zimmun as they didn’t join their meals together sitting, on the same table, and starting or finishing together they may not have a zimmun.<ref> Rama 193:3 writes that even if three people aren’t obligated in Zimmun it’s preferable that they make Zimmun because of Berov Am Hadrat Melech, that it’s preferable to honor Hashem in multitudes. Mishna Brurah 193:23 writes that the same would apply if there are more than 3 people. However, Magen Avraham in name of many poskim that since one can’t fulfill the [[Birkat HaMazon]] for another person one is also not allowed to make a zimmun together. Mishna Brurah 193:24 concludes that the Magen Avraham is more logical. </ref> Some say that if they sat together but they just started and ended at different times they that they can have a zimmun together.<ref>Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (Minchat Shlomo Brachot 45a cited by Dirshu 193:22)</ref> | ||
==If a Member of the Zimmun Left or Benched== | |||
# If three ate together and were obligated in Zimmun and one forgot about Zimmun and said [[Birkat HaMazon]] then the other two can say zimmun with the third. <Ref>Shulchan Aruch 194:1 </ref> However, if one of the group answered Zimmun with another group he can’t answer another zimmun of three. <Ref>Rama 194:1 </ref> | |||
# If three ate together and one person left he could be called back and Zimmun could be said even if he’s standing by the door next to them, however he should say [[Birkat HaMazon]] where he ate. However, if ten people ate together and one left he should be called back and everyone should sit down for Zimmun. <Ref>Gemara Brachot 45b, Shulchan Aruch OC 194:2, Mishna Brurah 194:8 </ref> | |||
==A Zimmun of Ten== | ==A Zimmun of Ten== | ||
# If ten people ate bread together, they are supposed to add the word Elokenu in the Zimmun.<ref>Shulchan Aruch 192:1</ref> | # If ten people ate bread together, they are supposed to add the word Elokenu in the Zimmun.<ref>Shulchan Aruch 192:1</ref> | ||
